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OHCHR - Press conference of the Commission of Inquiry on Syria 13 March 2023
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OHCHR - Press conference: Commission of Inquiry on Syria 13 March 2023
STORY: Commission of Inquiry on Syria – Report launch
TRT: 3:24 mins
SOURCE: UNTV CH
RESTRICTIONS: NONE
LANGUAGE: ENGLISH/NATS
ASPECT RATIO: 16:9
DATELINE: 13 March 2023 GENEVA, SWITZERLAND
SHOTLIST
- Medium shot, UN Geneva flag alley.
- Wide shot, press room with Commissioners on the podium
- SOUNDBITE (ENGLISH) – Hanny Megally, Commissioner of the Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic: “Clearly the armed groups were not helping by obstructing aid coming cross lines. The Syrian Government in Damascus took a week before they even allowed for the extra two crossings, and the United Nations and the international community seemed paralyzed during that period and that ‘s really what needs to be looked into”.
- Medium shot, laptop in front with speaker in background
- SOUNDBITE (ENGLISH) – Paulo Pinheiro, Chairperson of the Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic: “We are now investigating fresh attacks even in the very areas devastated by the earthquakes. These include last week’s reported Israeli attack on Aleppo international airport, a conduit for humanitarian aid”.
- Medium shot, photographers
- SOUNDBITE (ENGLISH) - Paulo Pinheiro, Chairperson of the Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic: “We are really appalled that nearly 12 years into the conflict, Syrian Government forces used cluster ammunitions to strike densely populated displacement camps in opposition held Idlib governorate killing and injuring at least 67 civilians”.
- Close up, journalists in front of screen with speaker
- SOUNDBITE (ENGLISH) - Paulo Pinheiro, Chairperson of the Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic: “Syrians, for good reasons, felt abandoned and neglected by those supposed to protect them in the most desperate of their times. Many voices are rightly calling, and we agree with that for an investigation on accountability to understand what this failure, this disaster happened beyond the earthquake.”
- Medium shot, members of the Commission
- SOUNDBITE (ENGLISH) - Hanny Megally, Commissioner of the Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic: “We have always argued there is no need for Security Council resolution anywhere when you have people in desperate straits. And this was an earthquake, it was an exceptional circumstance and legal scholars will argue in exceptional circumstances you can act even if it means crossing boundaries or trampling on state sovereignty so to speak”.
- Medium shot, photographer taking picture of the three Commissioners at the podium
- SOUNDBITE (ENGLISH) - Paulo Pinheiro, Chairperson of the Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic: “In the northeast, the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) continues to unlawfully hold 56,000 people, 56,000 people, mainly women and children, in Al-Hawl and Roj camps, where conditions continue to deteriorate”.
- Medium shot, Commissioners at podium
- SOUNDBITE (ENGLISH) – Lynn Welchman, Commissioner of the Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic: “These camps are horrendous places, mostly women and children are living in there, some 56, 000 now, probably some 37,000 non-Syrians, it’s hard to find out exact numbers. Health care is very limited, education is very limited particularly for children, some of those children have no life apart from these awful conditions”.
- Wide shot, press briefing room
- Medium shot, journalists listening
- Wide shot, press briefing room with Commissioners at podium and
At the launch of their latest report on Monday, two days before the 12th anniversary of the onset of the Syrian crisis, the UN Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic called for an independent investigation for alleged failures by the Syrian Government, the international community, including the United Nations, to rapidly direct urgent life-saving aid to northwest Syria after the massive earthquakes struck on February 6th.
“Syrians, for good reasons, felt abandoned and neglected by those supposed to protect them in the most desperate of their times,” said Paulo Pinheiro, Chairperson of the Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic, speaking today to journalists at the United Nations in Geneva. He added that “many voices are rightly calling, and we agree with that, for an investigation on accountability to understand what this failure, this disaster happened beyond the earthquake”.
The Commission concluded that in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake, it took the Syrian Government a full week to consent to life-saving cross-border aid access. The Government and opposing Syrian National Army (SNA) both impeded cross-line aid to affected communities, while Hayat Tahrir al Sahm (HTS) in northwest Syria refused cross-line aid from Damascus, the Commissioners said.
“Clearly the armed groups were not helping by obstructing aid coming cross lines,” said Hanny Megally, member of the Syria Commission. “The Syrian Government in Damascus took a week before they even allowed for the extra two crossings, and the United Nations and the international community seemed paralyzed during that period and that‘s really what needs to be looked into.”
Precious time was lost, the Commissioner maintained, to get the approval of two new border crossing points authorised by the UN Security Council.
“We have always argued there is no need for Security Council resolution anywhere when you have people in desperate straits," Mr. Megally said. "And this was an earthquake, it was an exceptional circumstance and legal scholars will argue in exceptional circumstances you can act even if it means crossing boundaries or trampling on state sovereignty, so to speak”.
Though the Commission is calling for a comprehensive ceasefire that is fully respected for civilians to be safe, including aid workers, “we are now investigating fresh attacks even in the very areas devastated by the earthquakes", said Mr. Pinheiro. “These include last week’s reported Israeli attack on Aleppo international airport, a conduit for humanitarian aid.”
The latest report, prepared before the devastating earthquakes, is based on 467 first-hand interviews, corroborated by satellite imagery, photographs, videos and documents. It provides a summary of violations committed against civilians in Syria during the second half of last year.
Civilians in the earthquake-affected northwest were particularly exposed to deadly attacks in the preceding months.
“We are really appalled that nearly 12 years into the conflict, Syrian Government forces used cluster ammunitions to strike densely populated displacement camps in opposition-held Idlib governorate, killing and injuring at least 67 civilians,” said Mr. Pinheiro, describing a single indiscriminate attack which occurred in November 2022.
These and other atrocities that the Commission investigated continue a long-established pattern of indiscriminate attacks, which may amount to war crimes.
The report concludes that parties to the conflict in Syria committed widespread human rights violations and abuses in the months leading up to the earthquakes, continuing a decade-long pattern of failures to protect Syrian civilians.
Further, the Commission of Inquiry found that conditions for safe and dignified return are still not in place in Syria. Some Syrians were denied return outright, their report said. Others were arbitrarily arrested or prevented from accessing their homes and property upon return.
“In the northeast, the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) continues to unlawfully hold 56,000 people, 56,000 people, mainly women and children, in Al-Hol and Roj camps, where conditions continue to deteriorate,” said Mr. Pinheiro.
Commission member Lynn Welchman pointed out that “these camps are horrendous places, mostly women and children are living in there, some 56,000 now, probably some 37,000 non-Syrians, it’s hard to find out exact numbers. Health care is very limited, education is very limited particularly for children, some of those children have no life apart from these awful conditions.”
The Commission will present its report to the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva on 21 March 2023.
-ends
Teleprompter
OK.
Good afternoon.
Thank you all for very much for joining us and welcome to this press conference with the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian, Syrian Arab Republic.
With us today are the Chair of the Commission.
In the middle, on my left, Professor Paolo Pinero and just to my left is Hani Magali and on the far side is Professor Lynn Welshman.
The Commissioners will be presenting the findings of their latest report to you today.
And although this report is now being made public, it will officially be presented to the Human Rights Council next week on Tuesday, the 21st of March.
As you may know, the Commission of Inquiry was established in 2011 to investigate all alleged violations of international human rights law in Syria.
The Human Rights Council has repeatedly extended the Commission's mandate since then, most recently until 31st of March 2023, which is the end of this month.
I should note that we have just shared the press release on today's report with you, and you should have that by now.
If you don't, please let us know.
So now Professor Pinero will make an opening statement and then, as usual, we'll open the floor to questions.
Now without further ado, I give the floor to Professor Pinero.
Thank you very much.
Thank you all for coming and for those who are following us remotely.
But before beginning my introductory remarks, I would like to say something about Rolando Gomez Hollando for 11 years, almost 12 years was sharing our 40 sort of 40 press conference during all this year.
He did this with a lot of elegance, with fairness and but besides doing that, he was always in contact with the Commission giving us some advice about the better way to communicate.
I am happy that he has a new assignment on communications at UNARG, and perhaps we will see this recording.
We'll say that we'll miss him, and then the commissioners will applaud Holland, who deserves this.
OK, Orlando.
Today we are launching our latest report just days before the 12th anniversary of the Syrian crisis.
It is based on 467 first hand interviews corroborated by satellite Ibadri photographs, videos, documents and submissions.
It was prepared just before last month's devastating earthquakes and provides a summary of violations committed against civilians in Syria during the second-half of last year.
Since the earthquake, we have seen many heroic acts to help victims by the Syrians themselves.
But we also witnessed a complete failure by the government and international community, including the United Nations, to rapidly direct urgent life saving aid to northwest Syria.
Many days were lost without any aid to the survivors of the earthquake.
The oldest actors didn't rapidly direct urgent life saving aid to northwest Syria, which became the epicentre of neglect.
They failed to secure agreement on an immediate pause in hostilities.
We had the illusion that after the WEAF cake, the conflict will be suspended.
No, no, all the parties continue the conflict, continue the war.
Despite the F cake and the victims of their cake, they failed to allow and facilitate a life saving aid through any available route discussions, meetings during seven days.
Three days after the earthquake, most of the victims didn't receive any support.
They failed to deliver international emergency support, including rescue teams and equipment in the vital first week after the earthquake.
Syrians, for good reasons, felt abandoned and neglected by those supposed to protect them in the most desperate of their times.
Many voices are rightly calling, and we agree with that.
For an investigation and accountability to understand what this failure, this disaster happened beyond the earthquake, Syrians now need a comprehensive ceasefire.
That is fully respect as we immediately called after the earthquake for civilians to be safe, including aid workers.
Yet we are now investigating fresh attacks, even in the very areas devastated by the earthquakes.
These include last week reported the Israeli attack on Aleppo International Airport, a conduit for humanitarian aid, and we also read that 2 days ago more Israeli attacks there took place.
The Syrian government took a full week to consent to life saving cross-border aid access and since then impeded across line aid to affected communities.
We are currently investigating several legations of parties to the conflict deliberately obstructing humanitarian aid.
We call, we insist in calling all parties to consent to impartial humanitarian relief being delivered and impeded to those in need, whether to cross-border or cross line modalities and that the gender impact of the crisis is considered most of those without shelter in the affected areas, girls and women, many of them heading households.
Going back to our report in government controlled areas, we documented increasing insecurity in Daraa, in Suwedah and Hama and continuing arbitrary imprisonment, torture, ill treatment and enforced disappearances.
Civilians in the earthquake affect the northwest were particularly exposed to deadly attacks in the preceding months.
We are really appalled that nearly 12 years into the conflict, Syrian government forces used cluster munitions to strike densely populated displacement camps.
In opposition held the Idlib governorate, killing and enduring at least 67 civilians.
In August, they launched unguided rockets, killing and injuring 45 civilians at and around the Biz mark in Al Bab, northeast of Aleppo.
In July, the Aerospace Defence of the Russian Federation destroyed a civilian house in Judaida, killing and injuring 20 civilians, in fact killing 13 civilians and injure sorry, killing seven civilians and injuring 13 civilians.
These and others atrocities we investigated continue a long established pattern of indiscriminate attacks which may amount to war crimes.
Conditions for safe and dignifying return are still not in place.
Even many countries are trying to convince refugee Syrian refugees to return to their countries.
Some Syrians were denied return outright, others were arbitrarily arrested or prevented from accessing their homes and property upon their return.
In the North East, the Kurdish LED Syrian Democratic Forces SDF continues to unlawfully hold 56,000 people, 56,000 people, mainly women and children in our Hall Raj camps where conditions continue to deteriorate.
The suffering inflicted on them may amount to the war crime of committing outrageous and personal dignity.
We call again for repatriations to speed up.
Meanwhile, HTS in Idlib and SNA factions in western Aleppo torture and arbitrarily detained people, including in a manner tantamount to enforced disappearance.
We are investigating credible and multiple reports that HTS carried out executions by firing squad in the areas controlled by the SNA.
We also documented hostage taking, pillage and property confiscation.
Last but not least, the government and other parties are deliberately prolonging the suffering of hundreds of thousands of family members by withholding information on the fate of those missing or disappear.
We have long supported the family's call for independent international entity to support the search for the missing on humanitarian track and welcome the first steps in this direction.
Later this month, happily, the Secretary General is scheduled to brief the event.
General Assembly on the issue of missing persons in Syria.
We hope this will now lead to concrete action on this without further delay.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Paolo, for those important remarks.
We now open the floor to questions.
If I could kindly ask you to introduce yourself 1st and your organisation before posting your question.
What?
We can go first to Emma Farage from Reuters.
Good afternoon.
On the question of responsibility for the failures after the earthquake, you mentioned a lot of actors.
Are they all equally responsible?
And specifically on the UN, why do you think that the UN didn't do better here?
Was it that they did not try hard enough or was there a conflict of interest or something else going on?
Thank you.
Of course we think that all those parties have a share responsibility and of course perhaps the part of this responsibility can be specific to each one of the parties and for that the normal way to do is investigation and and the good practise is independent investigate.
But my colleagues would like to come on board on that.
Yes, I mean, I think to what Paulo has said, it's a shame that all the actors really involved have not been helping in this area and and it's difficult of course without further investigation to say who is most responsible etcetera.
But clearly the armed groups were not helping by obstructing aid coming cross lines.
The the Syrian government in Damascus took a week before they even allowed for the extra 2 crossings.
And the United Nations and the international community seem paralysed during that.
And that's really what needs to be looked into.
You know, if they were working through the framework of a Security Council resolution or consent from Damascus, you know, there was a Security Council resolution in place anyway, limited to one crossing.
But essentially, you know, they could have acted using that much more quickly instead of waiting a week and then getting consent for the for the two crossings.
We've always argued there's no need for a Security Council resolution anyway.
When you have people in desperate, in desperate straits and this was an earthquake.
It was an exceptional circumstance.
And legal scholars will argue in exceptional circumstances, you don't you can act even if it means crossings boundaries or trampling on state sovereignty, so to speak.
And then, you know, talk afterwards about could it have been done some other way?
But in a, in a sense, all of this needs to be looked at clearly.
The tragedy is for a week or more people buried under rubble in northwestern Syria could only be helped by local sources with without the necessary heavy equipment and people who were injured.
We're not getting the right medical equipment even to treat those injuries.
Just briefly on that as well.
There was a there were two things about who was in terms of the Security Council.
So you have first of all, as Hanim Powell said that we have as the Commission has consistently criticised the use or the assumption that there's a need for security or the Security Council centric framework, if you like, for aid delivery.
This was long before the the earthquake occurred.
And then of course, the government of Syria has a duty to allow impartial humanitarian aid to come through.
But then of course, because of the dysfunction at the Security Council, it's become impossible to avoid political brinksmanship at in the Security Council on this issue at the expense of civilian lives and welfare.
And then we have the earthquake.
And there are, as Hanny mentioned, there's very **** profile and very well established legal scholars who have argued that there there's no need for Security Council authorization.
We would support as the Commission a thorough reexamination of those arguments in by the by the United Nations, taking into account their legal opinions in such things as the Oxford Guidance, which was commissioned by OCHA for exceptional situations.
And you don't get many more exceptional situations of what happened in this, in this in this earthquake.
And I think there are, as we've said, many voices calling for an investigation for accountability.
And while we don't think there's any reason to assume that an internal UN process wouldn't be rigorous and and helpful, we do think best practise would would best practise always is, is to have an external element at least process.
OK, thank you, Lynn.
We can go next to Robin Millard from AFP, who's joining us on Zoom.
Thank you.
The the Commission seems seems to find it incomprehensible that attacks have taken place since the earthquake.
Could you say a little bit more about that And, and particularly what attacks you've managed to record and document in the time since the earthquake?
So what's been happening since then?
Thank you.
Thank.
Thanks, Robin.
I mean, as soon as the earthquake struck, we issued a statement basically saying there needs to be an immediate cessation of hostilities to allow the aid workers to come in and, and help and to, and to allow the locals also to, to help with digging out those under the rubble and, and treating those who've been injured.
And amazingly, you know, within a couple of days, two or three days, you know, shelling has resumed and it's continued since, you know, more, I would say more likely more of it happening in the sort of the, the front lines area, so to speak, between the state and the, the state in Damascus and, and the people in Idlib.
But essentially, you know, it, it resumed very quickly and, and has carried on.
And, and you know, we've been investigating some of those incidents and we already have information on deaths and injuries.
So really an opportunity lost, you know, we would say.
And, and going forward, we continue to say there should be a cessation of hostilities.
If if you remember, there's a, there's already a ceasefire that's meant to be in place.
That's never really come into being that that Turkey, Turkey and and Russia were involved in that was meant to bring back an element of peace to the area.
And while there's been a little bit of a lull actually last year and in the period we've covered in our report, the six months in our report, we've been seeing a gradual escalation of hostilities right up till the end of December.
And then when you get to the earthquake, we had hoped at least common sense would prevail, but but sadly it did not.
Can I just, we are also, so we're following up now because those incidents clearly aren't in aren't in the report that we're launching the things that have happened since since January.
But there have we are following up on a number of strikes including some by the Israeli Air Force who some of you will know quite recently put Aleppo airport which was quite critical in humanitarian access after the earthquake out of service for a few days.
So these kind of actions also do nothing to help the protect the welfare and the interests of civilians in the aftermath of this, this awful event.
That and other obviously other ICE trucks by by other parties, but third parties are not helping in this.
Thank you, Lynn.
We'll take the next question from Laurent Sierra from the Swiss News Agency.
Yeah, thank you for the press conference.
We'll follow up on the call for an investigation.
So we could consider that the obstruction of of humanitarian aid is definitely on on under your scope.
So are you going to lead yourself that the the investigation that you're calling for and if not, who should investigate?
Thank you.
That is, we don't have, we don't have any objection that the United States itself, United Nations itself coordinates and investigation.
But as I think Lynn said this the international good practise is in the in terrible situations like that, the tragedy of this earthquake, the tragedy of the the Syrian population receiving any help in the first three days.
I think that would be it would be to follow the the international good practise that independent, independent.
Investigation Bureau, but it's not for us to decide this.
We are just conveying with the Syrian population respects because they are completely appalled by the this incapacity of the international organisations to to come on their support and their aid.
I would add just for clarity, we're not offering ourselves to conduct this investigation.
Clearly, of course, we are not volunteering for that.
For sure.
We don't want to give this idea.
Thank you.
We'll take one more.
One question from Lisa, Lisa Schlein from VOA.
Yes, good afternoon.
Nice to see you all, if only remotely.
Sorry.
I would like to know whether Russia is participating or involved in any of the recent attacks or is it so completely focused upon what it is, it's it's invasion in Ukraine And also what part is it playing in the Security Council?
That is when discussions go on in terms of aid being distributed to the earthquake victims and so forth.
Is it abstaining or vetoing?
You could elaborate upon its participation in this tragedy.
Thank you.
Thank you, Lisa.
In terms of the continuing conflict and shellings after the earthquake, I don't think we have any information on aerial attacks from the Russian Air Force.
But but in the period leading up in the six months covered in the report, we do have as a result of our investigations a number of aerial attacks by by the Russian forces.
In terms of the discussions at the Security Council, as you're aware, the at the time when the Security Council was going to discuss increasing the number of border crossings, the the Syrian authorities in Damascus then gave permission for two more crossings to be opened up.
And so that discussion didn't take place.
But generally the, I think the Russia has taken the position that coordination should be with Damascus, that Damascus should be able to judge whether whether it's after the earthquake or generally ongoing aid should come through Damascus and be crossed line as opposed to coming in across the borders of neighbouring countries.
And and hence that's pushed to us going to the Security Council to try and ensure that the aid doesn't get stopped completely.
The risk was always in January, it was down to 1 border crossing of Abel Hawa.
And the risk was that by July, in fact, the Security Council might pass a resolution in essentially not agreeing on any border crossings.
And that's always been the risk.
And, and I think what what we would like to see now that we have at least two more border crossings reopened, supposedly for three months, that they, they should not be ever closed again.
And that going forward, we should not be going backwards and continue with the three and, and look at reopening some of the others that have been closed through Security Council resolutions.
I'm sad to be saying thank you.
OK, Thank you.
Next we'll go to Agnes Pedro Padrero from AFP.
Yeah.
Good afternoon, everybody.
Thank you for taking my questions.
It's a follow up to the question of atheists who ask whom.
You say that there should be an independent investigation in charge of investigating those failures of helping the Syrians after the elsewhere.
I would like to know if you could clarify to whom are you thinking about who should be in charge of these independent investigations if it's not the UN?
Thank you.
That's a tough question.
And as Paulo says, it's really not up to us to be selecting or deciding.
I think an investigation is needed because as you all know, this was a catastrophe and, and people are left abandoned, as we say in in our report, essentially by the international community.
And, and we, you know, we're more interested in understanding exactly what happened and ensuring it's not repeated going forward.
And clearly there were failures.
There were failures to bring in the the aid into the area, whether it was cross-border or or cross lines.
And it took too long to even get permission from Damascus to get the aid in there.
And even then the type of aid that was coming in was not necessarily, at least in the early days, it was coming in was not necessarily what was needed for victims of an earthquake.
It was the aid that was coming in prior to the to the earthquake.
And I think the point we're making is for everyone to have, you know, good trust and, and faith that the proper investigation will take place and that it will be independent, etcetera, the good practises.
Then it should be independent of the parties that were involved in the failures.
And in that sense, of course, the UN is in the midst of that.
And, and you know, we have no reason to believe the UN would not do an excellent job and the Secretary General could appoint a board or a committee of sorts, etcetera.
But in some ways, you know, good practise as we know it is, it should be an independent body that's not linked to any of the parties involved in, in the, in the failures.
Thank you.
I I'd like to give a footnote not concerning the question of the investigation, but the the question of the, the 2 cross-border that Syria allowed immediately after the earthquake.
And I was trying to find our own language concerning what Rani said.
We hope that the Security Council will not after these three months, we'll take another discussion.
If the event can enter, cannot enter in, in Syria because the problem is that the earthquake for the time being, we don't have any more, but we have all the survivors and the survivors they need, they need aid.
And I, I read what we have said that I like very much the expression the our Commission has since a long time said it is a moral abomination.
I love, I like very much the expression a moral abomination that the Security Council resolution has in itself been deemed necessary to facilitate cross the border aid in the face of consistent violations of their obligation international law.
Then we we hope that this will not be repeated when this three, the deadline of three months will finish.
I think this will be a scandal that is to repeat and to expand the failure that has occurred.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Follow up from Emma Farsh.
Yeah.
A question about the actual report, please, and what was said about the SDF and the camps.
I haven't had a chance to read the whole report yet.
I know there was the allegation of this being a war crime.
Was that one of many allegations of war crime?
That's the first one.
And secondly, since this group is supported by the United States, what does that say about the US role?
Are they involved in a possible war crime?
And what would be your message to them?
Thank you.
If we're talking about the camps in the Hill Rd, up in, in the in the North East, we have said in the past that the conditions appear to constitute cruel and human treatment.
And we've also talked about the extended and prolonged arbitrary detention and deprivation of liberty because this is blanket internment.
It has been so for three years.
And we've also called on member states who are involved in supporting the SDF as that they have a specific responsibility.
I don't think we would say at this point are they involved in this.
But you know, though they have a specific responsibility to help the SDF, to assist the SDF in ceasing these violations.
These camps are horrendous places.
Mostly women and children living in there.
Some 56,000 now probably something like 37,000 non Syrians.
It's hard to find exact numbers.
Healthcare is very limited.
Education is, is is very limited, particularly for children.
Some of these children have known no life apart from in these awful conditions.
And so part of what we've called on you'll know already is, is, is to call on member states of the non of the non Syrians and the non Iraqis.
Iraqi repatriations are are continuing now and we do welcome the repatriations of nationals of other states.
There are some 66 states who have women and children in these camps, I think and and and some of the 10,000 male alleged dash fighters and supporters to repatriate their nationals.
But it's still very, very slow.
And you'll know that there are some court cases that have gone in, in Europe and so on about the obligations of the States in those ways.
So I think I, I would, I would, I would leave it there.
But I think everybody who's been there has a lot of groups have been there now and they testify to the awful conditions there and that everybody who is implicated has to make the utmost efforts because accountability and liability does arise with support and facilitation.
If I can say that, can I?
Do you want to finish off then just to to add a couple of things to, to what Lynn has said.
You know, as you know, the member states, you asked about the United States, but if we look at all the states that had nationals in the Northeast and it was I think over 66 countries, you know, for a while they were all happy to leave their citizens there.
And in fact, there were calls for trials to be stopped, courts to be established in, in trials.
There's there's over 10,000 held separately in, in detention centres from the people I think you were referring to in the camps, which are mainly the wives and children's of those who are suspected to have been linked to the Islamic State.
But from the very beginning, we were worried about the situation of people being held in, as Lynn described, awful conditions without any legal process and with their with their home countries basically saying we don't want them back.
And we pushed quite hard in meetings with member States and others to say, you know, take back your nationals.
And if they're guilty of having committed crimes, then you know, you have good legal processes and and institutions back home.
Why are you asking a non state actor to take on that responsibility?
And we're seeing that trickle begin to flow a bit more and, and many of the of the countries are taking back their nationals, which is a good thing.
Iraq itself has also stepped forward with the help of the United Nations and is taking back it had AI think nearly 30,000 in the camps and it's been taking back thousands of them.
And that process continues.
So those are, are good signs in regard to the United States.
I mean, I mean, as well as with others, we've always said, you know, if in any way you have influence over the authorities that are holding these people, then we have a number of concerns.
One of them was the conditions.
Another one was children being held with adults in places of detention where the adults are suspected of being associated with fighters or in fact themselves having been involved in, in seeing some of the of the violence that was happening.
And if right and being separated exactly from from their mothers and taken into detention when they reach when they reach the age of 12, it seems as though that some of these concerns have been acted upon.
And you know, another area maybe to mention in this, in this talking about the camps is that some of the member states at one point had said we will take back the children who are our nationals, but not the mothers basically, you know, rightly saying the children are innocent of what was going on there, but their mothers are not.
And, and, and again, our argument was, if you think the mothers are, are, are, are guilty of having committed crimes, then you have the systems in place back home, particularly.
I, I mean, we're thinking of like Western European governments in the United States to, to, to bring proceedings against them.
But it's not in the best interests of, of the children to separate them from their mothers.
And, and again, happily, I think we're seeing more and more countries taking back the families together and not going for the separation.
There are some who stand out and are still refusing, but we're hoping that they will recognise this in the end, this is the best way forward.
Thank you, Ben.
Just to add to that, in this reporting period for the last six months of 2022, there was this relatively recent development of Asayish.
Reportedly in August last year, reportedly with the SDF and reportedly with the help of some of the Member States of the International Counter Daesh coalition launched this operation called Operation Humanity and Security.
And they apparently transferred scores of boys, young boys well over 12, probably between 12 and 18.
We don't have the information, detailed information transferred scores of them from Helena El Rouge.
And some of them have simply got lost, or at least we're not able to to.
They've been they've they've gone to unknown locations.
And this sort of thing is just just seriously of serious, serious concern that if this is something to try to sort out Daesh in the camp and then these boys end up going to unknown locations.
It's compounding and already very serious situation.
OK.
We'll go next to The Associated Press.
Bassam Roux.
Yes, hi, please.
I would like to ask about the countries that have so far been refusing to return some of their citizens.
We've seen that France and Spain and as you said, Iraq have been returning some of their citizens.
What what, what are the main countries that are refusing to return their citizens?
And my other question is, do you have any details about the, the aid flow that was prevented from entering Idlib by Hayat Tahrir Sham?
Thank you.
You know, as we are pressing countries to take back their nationals, you know, most, most of them started in the beginning fearing taking back their nationals who may have been implicated in, in crimes in, in the Northeast.
And so gradually that picture is changing.
And you, you know, you mentioned some who are now taking back and earlier were not taking back.
I think we'll keep pressing the ones who are not.
Negotiations are happening all the time that we're not Privy to.
So and we may not necessarily be, you know, have the best information as to who is now not taking them back.
But, you know, some are making declarations in in the media about, you know, under what conditions they might, might take them back, etcetera, in regard to the to the border, to the, to the hurdles being being put forward.
I mean, very early on and, and Lynn may come in on this very early on after the earthquake, you know, we were hearing declarations from Tahir Sham in Idlib saying they will not accept any aid from Damascus cross line, you know, which to us seemed, you know, quite surprising seeing, you know, they needed the families needed the aid.
And, and this was, you know, politics speaking rather than humanity to a certain extent.
And, and it, it, you know, we heard and looked into a number of, of efforts to get aid across that was blocked, you know, but at the same time, you, you know, you saw Damascus saying, you know, we will send aid that's much needed to Aleppo and, and to government controlled areas where we have casualties, etcetera.
And we will prioritise where the aid goes.
And as you saw, very little aid was getting into the northwest.
So in a, in a way, an investigation will help look at again, what happened there as an example, you know, was it blocked on both sides?
Was it blocked on one side?
Was there really on both sides, you know a conspiracy that in essence you know the victims were were caught up in hi to refer you to Annex 6 of the port which sets out the repatriation of foreign children and women from SDF are on camps in northeastern Syria as of 31st of December.
The bottom which I suppose is is fitting.
I don't know the the bottom list of countries there in that in at the at the bottom of that table shows that none have either children or women have been repatriated from quite a large list of countries there.
I shan't read them out because it is quite a large list.
We don't know.
I should say it's quite difficult to track this because we don't know how many nationals these countries have in the camp.
So it's all this is as far as we're able to, to work the figures out from open sources and from asking questions of different states.
So that's Annex 6, page 31 for easy access.
We intended to to quote the same annex.
That's Annex 6.
You you see, there are unexpected countries that are.
Repatriating women, children, Kazakhstan, the Russian Federation was Pakistan, Tajikistan, they have large numbers, large numbers.
Of course you have some, some countries of the Western Hemisphere like of course Germany, Belgium, Sweden, but I think the young Iraqi, Iraqi has repatriated.
Then what I'd like to call AT issue is that it's not a, it's not a secret how to deal with that.
Several countries, most of the countries are dealing with these children and the women successfully.
It was not the security, the national security disaster to repatriate children and women, very few problematic cases.
Then there is no excuse at all to go on with this repatriation, the appeal that we are.
I I think that you are repeating for the last four years.
Thank you.
Just maybe a quick reminder that before we paint everybody with the same, with the same brush, you know, when we talk about the mothers that some countries are saying they won't take back, the assumption is that they're associated with the Islamic State, you know, married to Islamic State fighters and therefore guilty and should be punished, etcetera.
You know, the realities are that, you know, amongst them are many who were trafficked into this situation.
So they're being doubly victimised.
As Lin pointed out, you know, in a recent raid into into the the camp, there were Yazidi women and girls who are themselves being held there and against their will.
And so it's difficult to be saying, you know, we'll take children and we won't take the women because the women are there out of their own free will or or made decisions that they should now be punished for.
And most governments have established legal systems to tackle these problems.
You know, why call on a non state actor to to take on that role?
Thank you.
Let's go next to emotion, folks.
Hi, thanks for taking my question.
It's to actually going back to the earthquake and the failure.
You say the UN also failed.
You make a distinction between the humanitarian arm of the UN here in Geneva, the aid agencies and the political arm of the UN.
And then just coming, perhaps you don't want to answer such a specific question, but so you do you think yes or no the UK should repatriate Shamima Begum?
Are you asking me as the commissioner from the UK, I, I, I, well, we have, I don't think we have a position as a Commission, but I certainly think they yes, of course I do.
Yes, I do.
Very much so, yeah, political or yes, I think, you know, national countries should take back their national regardless.
I think we can't get into individual cases because we're not Privy to all the situations.
But but, but I totally agree with Lynn.
So there's there's no problem in terms of the, you know, what happened.
I think again, you know, we're not Privy to the all the discussions that were going on at the time within the between UN agencies up to the secret general's office, etcetera.
But, but like everybody else, we were appalled watching day by day, no aid coming into the Northwest, which we were particularly interested in, of course, because we're monitoring and our team is monitoring that area and we're in touch with people on the ground.
And people are saying, you know, we need heavy equipment, we need, you know, search and search teams with dogs, etcetera.
People are still alive under the rubble.
Where's the UN, where's the international community, you know, to help us?
And, and they could see not far away the same earthquake, you know, lots of international assistance being provided on the Turkish side of the border, whereas they were waiting for something that did not transpire.
And so, you know, for us, I think you can see we're, we're actually quite shocked that this happened and went on for days and days and, and over a week, you know, before there was agreement reached with Damascus, you know, shocking that Damascus would not have agreed immediately for it to come in, but also shocking that the international community and the United Nations did not act more quickly and, and waited so long.
And of course, it, you know, you look back now and it's been it's too late to say that, you know, even aid coming in that late will have helped people who may still have been alive and could have been pulled out as we were seeing, you know, on the other side of the border, as as Paulo says, you know, there were, you know, huge efforts being made by the local teams and people were being pulled out alive.
But you could also see a resignation when they knew they couldn't do the work without heavy equipment that was not there.
You know who ultimately, you know, was it that they were not prepared on the ground?
They, the teams were not ready.
I mean, the teams were deployed.
They were even deployed in government controlled areas and, and to Aleppo within days.
In the northwest, there was nothing.
They were deployed on the Turkish side, you know, within days.
And and we could see results on, you know, on a daily basis.
So was this to do with the, you know, the, the legal framework perhaps was it to do with the, you know, the conditions on the ground, you know, if it was conditioned on the ground, should the UN have done more to ensure aid was getting in there etcetera.
I think those are all the questions that, you know, we have lots of questions and I'm sure others do.
And it ought to be looked in carefully and, and again to learn the lessons to ensure this is never repeated again, whether in Syria or, or elsewhere.
And I I'd like to, to add also that the Syrian population, if I may use this expression, has the right to, to truth.
They are, they have to, they have they, they need to have an explanation why they receive this treatment.
Looking just after the frontier there was, it was another situation in Turkey and in Syria there was discrimination in terms of why this happened.
We have to, they have the right to know what exactly happened for not for not receiving immediately because three days after a lot of people could survive if there was a fast immediate reaction of the international community and the United Nations in terms of the aid immediately after the disaster, the earthquake.
Thank you.
We'll take one last question from Suniva Rose, who is the Beirut correspondent of the National.
Hi, I'm sorry, just to clarify, I'm in Brussels, but just you mentioned there is a fear that all border crossings will be shut, would be shut down maybe later in the year.
Could you maybe clarify whether that was the reason why the UN was paralysed, as you mentioned, for days after the earthquake?
Was it due to fear of a possible future total shutdown if the UN sent aid without Damascus consent?
Thank you.
I'll start with that, but I think I'll then hand over to Hannah.
I'm not sure that we can actually speculate on the reasons why they didn't.
We did talk about that to start with, but we do have a, an argument on that anyway, I think Henry, right.
I mean, just to clarify, you know, I'm assuming you've been following this, but just to clarify, you know, originally the, the member states went to the Security Council to reach agreement about bringing in AIDS to the areas outside government control, particularly in the northwest.
And there was a resolution permitting 4 crossings to, to bring in aid.
And by January this year we were down to 1 crossing.
And the fear was that in fact, by July maybe that crossing would disappear.
The argument always being made that, you know, Damascus can supply aid, you know, as the government can supply aid to all the country and there's no need for aid to be coming across borders.
And so now that we're back to three openings, you know, our argument is we should never go back to one or, or go back to the Security Council to risk, you know, closing down crossings.
It should now be established that, you know, there are those crossings and, and clearly the one crossing already people were saying was not enough before the earthquake.
So, you know, for humanitarian reasons alone, we would argue that, you know, three months is not enough anyway just to deal with the earthquake damage and recovery.
But generally for, for that area, it should not ever be decreased from that number and should actually be increased.
I if you allow me, I'd like to end with a positive note because the questions and the answers were so negative.
I think that we all use something positive.
I felt what was very important and positive is that since the earthquake, the United States, the United Kingdom and the European Union have all issued temporary licence that exempts all transactions related to manital action from from sanctions.
I think that we must say that we welcome, very welcome the humanitarian exemptions to facilitate the flow of aid, because many times, despite all the humanitarian exemptions, sanctions have not a very positive influence for the Syrian people.
And I, I think that at this very moment, it was very important and we have to, to welcome that with this positive point.
One other positive point, or perhaps a mobilisation point is that it's on the 28th of March, I think we have a, there's an interactive dialogue scheduled for the Secretary General or the **** Commission for Human Rights on the mechanism for the missing and the General Assembly.
That's right.
And we do hope that there might be a quick resolution drafted, tabled after that, establishing such a mechanism.
And we have supported the voices of the families who've been seeking the establishment of of, of such a mechanism for, for some time and now.
And so we would hope very much.
We're so glad that it's got this far and we hope very much that it will go forward and start to bring some recourse and relief for those many families and victims and survivors.
Thank you.
Anything else to add?
OK.
I think that brings us to the end of this press conference today.
Thank you all for joining us.
Thank you, Commissioners, for the presenting this important report to us.
On that note, I wish everybody a good day.
Thank you.