UN Geneva - Multimedia Newsroom : HRC - Press conference of the UN Special Rapporteur on Afghanistan

Good afternoon, everyone and welcome to this press conference.

Today we have with us Mr Richard Bennett, who is a Special Rapporteur on the human rights situation in Afghanistan.

We will be begin with opening remarks from the Special Rapporteur, after which we will open the floor to questions.

Mr Bennett, you have the floor.

Good afternoon.

Thank you very much, Maya.

Good afternoon everyone.

As you may be aware, I presented my latest report on the human rights situation in Afghanistan to the Council yesterday afternoon.

It sets out a stark reality that the human rights situation under the Taliban continues to deteriorate.

This crisis needs to remain in the spotlight.

Before I go any further, and I'll try to keep my remarks pretty brief, I just like to have a word or two about human rights.

Human rights are universal and indivisible.

It's critical that they are seen as part of the solution.

Going forward, we must emphasise convergence over division in Afghanistan, and after 45 years and more of conflict and occupation, Afghanistan is a grievously damaged society that also displays remarkable resilience.

And in a continuing polarised environment, finding common ground is desperately needed.

Today in Afghanistan, women and girls don't enjoy the right to education above grade 6.

They're being erased from public life.

Even mandatory clothing regulations are leading to arbitrary arrest and detention.

This leads to concerns about gender persecution and even discussions about the characterised as as gender apartheid.

We have documented public executions and corporal punishments recently.

Peaceful dissent is stifled.

Violence and the ****** of violence are used with impunity to control and instil fear in the population.

Those responsible for this must be held to account.

There's also a desperate humanitarian and economic crisis.

This is not the moment to forget Afghanistan in any sense.

For the international community, it's of the utmost importance to steadfastly insist that normalisation and integration of Afghanistan back into the international community will require significant improvements in human rights from the Taliban, including the situation of women and girls.

Thank you.

Mr Bennett.

The Special Rapporteur will now take questions.

We'll begin with the questions in the room and then we'll move on to those of you online.

Good afternoon, Special Rapporteur Bennett.

A question about the Taliban, actually, and how one can work with them.

Obviously you have to engage with them on on human rights, but.

How do you?

Do so.

Without, as the report says, normalising.

The Authority.

How?

How do you strike?

That balance.

Thank you.

Sorry, I don't think it's difficult to engage without normalising when one is dealing with human rights.

I mean, human rights advocacy is often about dealing with difficult situations and difficult actors, reluctant actors.

But there are ways to do it.

And what I consider is that every conversation by the international community, be it UN agencies or, or or states, should include human rights and the situation of women in the agenda, no matter what the rest of the conversation is about.

It might be about economy or about agriculture or about technology, but it needs to include human rights and, and, and every face to face meeting should, if it's a delegation, it should be a delegation that includes women.

And those women should be speaking directly to the Taliban, because the idea of a a normal society is that it includes both genders, or all genders in fact.

Thank.

You.

Thank you.

And if you could, Please remember to state your name and your media outlet before the question.

We'd appreciate any other questions in the room.

No.

So we'll move on to those online.

We can start with Yuri from Rio Novosti.

Yes, thank you for taking my question.

This is hard to speak about Afghanistan without speaking about politics and especially geopolitics.

So, Mr Bennett, you took your mandate a year after the Kaotik departure of American forces from Afghanistan after 20 years of occupation.

Do you feel today that anything has been seriously done during this occupation to improve human rights situation in the country or do you?

Feel that?

On the contrary, things have only gotten worse.

And did the hasty dispatcher of Western troops have a direct impact on the situation that you are describing today?

Who should be considerate responsible for what is happening now?

Thank you.

Thanks for your question, Yuri.

Yes, I do.

My assessment is that in human rights did improve during the 20 years of the Republic.

However, the situation was far from perfect and we all know that.

And I was there from 2003 on and off right up till 2021 with gaps.

I wasn't there the whole time.

And ask Afghan women, did they and Afghan children, did they observe any improvements in their human rights during that?

When I asked them, they told me that they do.

They did.

But there were problems.

It was not a golden era.

There were serious problems with civilian casualties committed by all parties to the conflict.

There were also problems due to corruption and due to narcotics and due to mismanagement, and there was torture, and there was arbitrary detention from time to time.

But there was a constitution.

There were elections, perhaps imperfect.

There were institutions like a national human rights institution, which in my view did excellent work.

So yes, there were improvements.

It's false to claim that there were none, in my view.

But, you know, ask others.

Ask the Afghans who lived through that.

The second part of your question.

I have continually supported accountability mechanisms, accountability processes, but you'll note that when I've spoken about that, I have also spoken about those processes needing to apply not only to the last, since 2 1/2 years, since August 2021, but further back as well, and to involve all parties to a conflict in which human rights were violated.

So that is something I understand that others, including the **** Commissioner, have been asked to look at and will be reporting on in the September session this year.

On my part, I will be reporting again in June on the devastating, systematic and widespread discrimination against women and girls, and part of that report will focus on necessary accountability mechanisms as well as focusing on what needs to be done to bring about change so that the that half of the population gets back on the path to equality.

It was never there.

It was part of the way there.

It there has been a definite set back and this needs to be turned around.

Thank you.

Do we have other questions?

Yes, Mr Riazad Bhat online.

Please go ahead.

Hi, my name's Riazad Bhat.

I'm the Bureau chief for Afghanistan and Pakistan at The Associated Press.

I'm currently in Kabul.

And what you were saying about human rights and normalisation, in my conversations with the Taliban, they don't feel like they are doing anything wrong with regards to human rights.

They believe that their interpretation of Sharia law necessitates these decrees on education, segregation and wardrobe.

And senior members of the Taliban, including the Supreme Leader, have stated over and over that they wish to see the imposition of Sharia in every aspect of Afghan life and every element of Afghan society.

So when they are coming from that position and you are coming from your position, where is the common ground for discussion and conversation?

And thanks and for and, and, and thanks for joining from Kabul.

And a very pertinent question.

And that's why I began my remarks by discussing or mentioning the polarised environment and how we need to strive to find common ground.

I'm aware of the position of the Taliban on those matters, but I would also add that they have not resiled from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights or the seven out of nine major human rights treaties that Afghanistan as a state has ratified over the years.

And secondly, they are outliers in those views, particularly in the view about education of girls and women.

There are no other states in the world who take the same position, and that includes majority Muslim states as well.

Several such states took the floor yesterday, as they have in previous meetings of the Human Rights Council as well as the General Assembly that I've attended and I understand also in the Security Council, and have quite strongly criticised the policies against women and girls.

The Secretary General has done the same just in Doha last week when he was meeting with different countries, special envoys.

So they're very much isolated on this point.

I think it will take time, but I think it's also important for all stakeholders, especially members of the international community, to continue to insist that human rights, and particularly the rights of women and girls, are respected.

Because there's also a signal that's given more broadly if States and others begin to consider that this is inevitable and begin to normalise what is an utterly unacceptable situation when half the population have basically lost all their human rights.

Thank you.

Mr Bennett.

We have a follow up question from Yuri.

Yes, thanks.

This is just a follow up on what the special reporter said does that.

Mean that you are discussing.

With the governments of the countries involved in the occupation to determine the responsibilities during the murders of civilians that have been documented during the occupation.

Are you talking with them and what are they saying about that?

Thank you.

My mandate is on Afghanistan and on the people of Afghanistan.

That said, I have been consistently saying in public situations, including yesterday and today, that I commend those countries who are beginning to take serious measures to assess their their contribution or their impact in Afghanistan, including accountability measures for violations for which they may have been responsible.

And I believe that there should be no double standards, there should be no selective justice, and that there ought to be a raft of accountability measures that should include policy changes, disciplinary measures, including perhaps criminal justice and other measures not excluding reparations to the people of Afghanistan.

This issue requires much more discussion, but I think, and I think there are is progress in some some places, but it should not in any way let current violators in Afghanistan, including the Taliban and ISKP, off the hook.

They must also be held accountable for violations in the past and in the present.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr Bennett.

We have two hands up online.

I'll give the floor to Mr Heberman, followed by Basadon Mess from an adult.

Thank you.

Yes, good afternoon.

My name is Yander Kabaman.

I write for German media.

I'm based here in Geneva, at the Palais de Nacion.

I would like to ask you about the prospects for the women in Afghanistan.

Have you?

Any.

Sort of hope that they the.

The girls.

And the women may be liberated from this tyranny anytime soon.

I don't think there'll be a revolutionary change anytime soon, to be frank.

But I do have hope, partly because of the resilience and strength of Afghan women and also some some Afghan men as well.

And we are seeing them through that resilience, finding some ways to live their lives, to be able to continue to work or to continue to find some forms of education.

So I hope that this resilience continues.

And I also note that there are very small pockets of hope with the approval of the the Taliban, including in business, private sector, there seems to be a little more openness and also, for example, in the health sector.

Thank you.

We'll take the next question.

Thank you.

My question will be about recent public executions, which are raising concerns.

There was like 3 last week and I think the total was around 5:00.

I wanted to ask the normal executions continue, but we are now talking about public executions and how we can stop.

These executions.

And the other thing, the other concerning thing was there were flogging incidents including a woman and a 12 year old children recently.

What would you say about that and how we can end these incidents?

Thank you.

Together with other independent experts at the UN, we have for quite some time now condemned public executions and also public flogging or flogging, corporal punishment of any type as a violation of human rights, a violation certainly of the Convention on Civil and Political Rights and also the Convention against Torture.

And just a couple of days ago, the **** Commissioner also issued a statement on this and called for a moratorium on the death penalty in Afghanistan.

We are noting this trend.

It is not did not start recently.

In fact, the flogging in particular has been recorded by my team for at least a year, more than a year now, many different instances in many parts of the country.

We are also observing, I believe, an uptick in public executions and we condemn this.

It really must stop.

It's, it's contrary to international standards.

Uh, and uh, we, uh, we, we consider umm, uh, that this is a, a very important, umm, indicator for the international community in relation to the points I made earlier about, uh, demanding progress and improvements on human rights benchmarks before there can be any normalisation of the current administration in Afghanistan.

Thank you.

We have a question from Lali Nabila.

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

Please go ahead with Can you hear me?

Yes.

Oh.

OK, I have my question is.

What is your prospect concerning the inclusive inclusivity of other ethnic groups in Afghanistan with the Taliban?

Thank you.

That's covered in my recent report and as well in previous reports.

Afghanistan is a diverse, A richly diverse country, different ethnicities, religions and languages.

So moving forward, there needs to be a focus on not on division, but on coming together and on respecting the cultural, religious and social elements of all the different groups in Afghanistan.

Inclusivity is crucial.

It is not sufficient at present.

It there needs to be considerable progress made in this area if there is to be, in my view, sustainable peace.

It's a bedrock of human rights inclusivity and as mentioned in my reply to the previous question, if there are to be benchmarks connected to any kind of political process for the reintegration of Afghanistan, this too the question of genuine inclusivity needs to be on the table.

Thank you.

And we have a follow up question I think from Beza Donmess.

Yeah, thank you.

Just a quick one.

You state that for the cessation of such executions, international community should put a pressure on the Afghanistan.

But when you're talking about that, what kind of measures you're specifically talking about it?

Which measure should we take to create that pressure?

Thank you.

Well, I think the measure that I've talked about most is to use leverage as regards any kind of normalisation or integration, reintegration of Afghanistan.

I think there is leverage there.

Of course, there are also other measures in terms of condemnation and there may be legal measures that can be taken.

I haven't mentioned previously in this, in this press conference, but I did yesterday in the Council that we are aware that the investigation of the International Criminal Court is fully underway in Afghanistan and there may be opportunities in other international courts, including the International Court of Justice, when it comes to the violations of the Sidor Convention that Afghanistan is a party to.

So speaking out, refusing to accept and normalise and accountability measures are three that I'll mention here.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr Bennett.

If there are no more questions, we will proceed and close this press conference.

But thank you very much to everybody for participating.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Maya.

HRC - Press conference of the UN Special Rapporteur on Afghanistan - 01 March 2024