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HRC - Press Conference: Independent International Fact-Finding Mission for the Sudan
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HRC - Press Conference: Independent International Fact-Finding Mission for the Sudan
Story: Sudan human rights probe findings
TRT: 04’37”
SOURCE: UNTV CH
LANGUAGE: ENGLISH / NATS
ASPECT RATIO: 16:9
DATELINE: 06 September 2024 - GENEVA, SWITZERLAND
RESTRICTIONS: NONE
Speakers:
- Mohamed Chande Othman, Chair of the Fact-Finding Mission
- Joy Ngozi Ezeilo, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission
- Mona Rishmawi, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission
SHOTLIST
- Exterior medium shot: UN Geneva flag alley.
- Wide shot of the podium and Press room.
- SOUNDBITE (English) Mohamed Chande Othman, Chair of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Since mid-April 2023, the conflict in Sudan has spread to 14 out of the 18 states impacting the entire country and the region, leaving eight million Sudanese internally displaced as a result of the conflict, with two million - over two million - who have been forced to flee to neighbouring countries.”
- Medium-wide, podium speakers and Press room.
- SOUNDBITE (English): Mona Rishmawi, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Our investigation has found that both parties and their respective allies have committed large-scale violations of human rights and international humanitarian law since the start of the conflict in mid-April 2023. Many of these amount to international crimes. In particular, we have found that both SAF and RSF conducted hostilities in densely-populated areas, in particular through constant strikes and artillery shellings in different cities, including Khartoum and different cities in Darfur, amongst others.”
- Medium-wide, podium speakers, Press photographer.
- SOUNDBITE (English): Joy Ngozi Ezeilo, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Members of the RSF in particular have perpetrated sexual violence on a large scale in the context of attacks on cities in Darfur region and the greater Khartoum area.”
- Medium, Press photographer, journalists.
- SOUNDBITE (English): Joy Ngozi Ezeilo, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Victims recounted being attacked in their homes, beaten, lashed and threatened with death or harm to their relatives or children before being raped by more than one perpetrator. They were also subjected to sexual violence while seeking shelter from attacks or fleeing. We also found evidence of women being subjected to sexual slavery after being abducted by RSF members.”
- Medium, journalists, seated.
- SOUNDBITE (English): Mona Rishmawi, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “The RSF and its militias further committed a large-scale ethnic-based attacks on the non-Arab civilian population, in particular the Masalits in El Geneina and around it in West Darfur. This attack - which we documented very rigorously - comprised of horrific assaults, including killings, torture, rape and other forms of sexual violence, destruction of property and pillage.”
- Medium-wide, podium speakers and Press photographer.
- SOUNDBITE (English): Mona Rishmawi, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Maybe just very briefly on the international force and I think the colleagues can… There are different models, of course. I mean, this can be done by the United Nationsand there has been, you know, in the neighbouring country, in South Sudan, there is actually, you know, a mandate for the United Nations to protect civilians in particular countries. This can also be done, as we know, from also the African Union, so regional organizations can actually do that.”
- Medium, journalists.
- SOUNDBITE (English) Mohamed Chande Othman, Chair of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Starving the parties of arms and ammunition including new supplies of ammunition and arms will help in slowing down the appetite for hostilities.”
- Medium, journalist.
- SOUNDBITE (English): Mona Rishmawi, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “SAF is mobilizing and sometimes is mobilizing in schools, but its allied forces have been recruiting children and have been using children in combat. And that’s where the distinction that you find in our report. It is much more systematic and widespread by RSF.”
- Medium, video journalist adjusting camera.
- Medium, journalist looking up.
Sudan crisis: Rights investigators demand arms embargo extension to end ‘rampant’ abuses
Top human rights investigators into Sudan’s brutal war called on Friday for a country-wide arms embargo as they recounted harrowing testimony of victims of horrific sexual attacks whose bodies are treated as a “theatre of operation” by fighters acting with total impunity.
“Since mid-April 2023, the conflict in Sudan has spread to 14 out of the 18 states impacting the entire country and the region, leaving eight million Sudanese internally displaced as a result of the conflict, with two million - over two million - forced to flee to neighbouring countries,” said Mohamed Chande Othman, Chair of the Independent International Fact-Finding Mission for the Sudan.
In its first report on the crisis after being created by the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva in October 2023, the panel insisted that rival militaries the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) and the Rapid Support Forces (RSF), as well as their respective allies, were responsible for large-scale, indiscriminate and direct attacks involving airstrikes and shelling against civilians, schools, hospitals, communication networks and vital water and electricity supplies – indicating a total disregard for the protection of non-combatants.
The three independent rights experts leading the work of the Mission - Mohamed Chande Othman, Chair, Joy Ngozi Ezeilo and Mona Rishmawi – emphasized that the responsibility for the grave violations lay with “both parties and their respective allies” with many amounting to international crimes.
“In particular, we have found that both SAF and RSF conducted hostilities in densely-populated areas, in particular through constant strikes and artillery shellings in different cities, including Khartoum and different cities in Darfur, amongst others,” said Ms. Rishmawi.
Although the Government of Sudan has refused to cooperate with the fact-finding Mission after rejecting its mandate, investigators have gathered first-hand testimony from 182 survivors, family members and eyewitnesses. Extensive consultations with experts and civil society activists have also been conducted to corroborate and verify additional leads.
“Members of the RSF in particular have perpetrated sexual violence on a large scale in the context of attacks on cities in Darfur region and the greater Khartoum area,” insisted Ms. Ezeilo. “Victims recounted being attacked in their homes, beaten, lashed and threatened with death or harm to their relatives or children before being raped by more than one perpetrator. They were also subjected to sexual violence while seeking shelter from attacks or fleeing. We also found evidence of women being subjected to sexual slavery after being abducted by RSF members.”
The panel’s report also offered insight into “large-scale, ethnic-based attacks on the non-Arab civilian population” – and in particular, the Masalit people - in El Geneina, the capital of West Darfur, an ethnically diverse city to around 540,000 people. Shortly after the outbreak of war in April 2023, the RSF and allied militia attacked the city, killing thousands, the investigators said, with “horrific assaults…torture, rape” and the destruction of property and pillage the norm.
“Masalit men were systematically targeted for killing,” the Mission’s report continued. “RSF and its allied militias went door to door in Masalit neighborhoods, looking for men and brutally attacking and killing them, sometimes in front of their families. Lawyers, doctors, human rights defenders, academics, community and religious leaders were apparently specifically targeted. RSF commanders reportedly issued orders to ‘comb the city’ and place checkpoints throughout”.
Highlighting the failure of the Sudanese military to protect civilians in cities and camps for those uprooted by the war, the rights experts urged the international community to extend the current arms embargo on the Darfurs to the whole of the country. “Starving the parties of arms and ammunition including new supplies of ammunition and arms will help in slowing down the appetite for hostilities,” said Mr. Othman.
The investigators also urged the establishment of a peacekeeping force by the international community, either under the purview of the UN or a regional body:
“This can be done by the United Nations and there has been, you know, in the neighbouring country, in South Sudan, there is actually, you know, a mandate for the United Nations to protect civilians in particular countries,” said Ms. Rishmawi. “This can also be done, as we know, from also the African Union, so regional organizations can actually do that.”
The breakdown in law and order in Sudan is such that children are widely recruited to take part in the conflict, too, the investigators said. “SAF is mobilizing and sometimes is mobilizing in schools, but its allied forces have been recruiting children and have been using children in combat. And that’s where the distinction that you find in our report. It is much more systematic and widespread by RSF,” Ms. Rishmawi noted.
“There has to be accountability” for this and other crimes, she continued, in a call for the creation of a special tribunal to hold perpetrators to account for the grave crimes continuing across Sudan with total impunity.
“These people need to be held to account. The fact that they were not held to account in previous conflicts is what made women the women's body, as a theater of operation for this war. This has to stop, and the only way to stop is to have an international judicial mechanism because there is no confidence,” she said.
Teleprompter
OK, OK.
Good morning, everybody.
Sorry for the slight delay.
We're ready to get started now.
Thank you all very much for joining us today at this press conference at the Palais de Nacion.
We're pleased to have us have with us today all three members of the independent international fact finding mission for the Sudan who wanted to take this opportunity to speak to you about the findings of their latest report.
With us in the centre is the Chair, Mr Mohamed Chande Othman, to my right is Miss Joy Ngozi Izilo and on the far side is Miss Mona Rishmaui.
As you may know, the Fact Finding Mission was created by the Human Rights Council in October 2023 to investigate and establish the facts, circumstances and root causes of all alleged human rights violations and abuses and violations of international humanitarian law in the context of the conflict that began in April 2023.
Their latest report was published online this morning.
It will be officially presented to the Human Rights Council at the start of next week.
And now I hand over to the chair for opening remarks, followed by our fellow experts, and then we'll open the floor to questions.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you very much and good morning.
Yeah.
Let me on behalf of my colleagues and myself, by way of introduction, just reiterate that following our establishment by the Human Rights Council on 11th of October 2023, the international, the Independent International Finding Mission for the Sudan commenced its its work and we are expecting on the 10th of September to present our report to the Human Rights Council.
To begin with, I think it is important to reiterate that the work of a Commission like ours requires cooperation and consultation and in the conduct of our in depth investigation we have undertaken 128IN depth interviews with individuals and also following our call for submissions, we received over 700 submissions from various entities, an organisation, individuals, experts and so on.
So our findings are based on very wide consultations.
Another distinctive fixture of this Commission is cooperation with Sudan.
Despite 4 requests that we made between January and August this year for meetings and access to Sudan, unfortunately, the Sudanese authority have not engaged with our mandate to date.
However, we will continue to pursue these efforts and remain open to engaging with all the parties to the conflict.
But we've also engaged neighbouring States and we have received access to Kenya where our Secretariat is based, Chad and Uganda.
And we continue also to request access to Egypt, Ethiopia, South Sudan and the Central African Republic, which is crucial also in gaining additional first hand information and therefore also to effectively carry on this mandate.
But in terms of the requirements of Resolution 54, two, it had also required us to engage with many other entities that are involved in the Sudan conflict, in the Sudan situation.
So we have worked closely with a **** Commissioner for Human Rights and is designated expert on Sudan, the United Nations Security Council Panel of experts on Sudan, the UN Secretary General's personal Envoy for Sudan, the Sudan County representative of the African Commission on Human People's Right, including also the AU, a special envoy for the prevention of the crime of genocide and massive social crimes.
Our mandate, however, and with this we want to insist, is separate and distinct in scope than the other mandates.
But coordination is necessary, of course, to avoid overlap and duplication of efforts in discharging our mandate.
We've also had excessive consultation with Sudanese civil society organisations, community leaders, human right defenders, subject matter experts and other stakeholders and we want to thank all organisations and individuals that have extended their hands and also for those who have recounted the horroring stories of the conflict.
Now let me turn to the conflict.
Since mid-april 2023, the conflict in Sudan has spread to 14 out of the 18 states, impacting the entire country and the region, leaving 8 million Sudanese internally displaced as a result of the conflict, With 2,000,000 / 2 million who have been forced to flee to neighbouring countries.
That makes a total of 10 million people either displaced or in refugee status outside Sudan.
Over 105 countries in this world have a population of less than 10 million.
So you could see the impact that has in terms of a devastating effect.
But I think also it is our view and our finding that the conflict remains protracted.
It has engulfed, as we said, the whole of territory affecting the whole of Sudan.
And there are more than two warring parties because both the two parties rely on allied militia and other irregular forces.
So the true scale, however, is yet to be known due to the ongoing conflict there.
There are many thousands of civilian men, women and children who have been killed or have been wounded and have suffered extensively.
Turning to the our finding, we have found that the Sudanese warring parties that mainly the Sudanese Armed Forces South and the Rapid Support Forces, RSF and their respected allies have committed an appalling range of violations.
And as my fellow expert Mona Rishwami will further detail, we found reasonable grounds to believe that many of these violations amount to international crimes.
Violations established took different forms based on intersecting grounds, including gender and age and their impact will last for decades to come.
Urgent assistance is needed, in particular survivors of **** and other forms of sexual violence, including children.
As my fellow expert Joy Ngozi Eziello will explain, the gravity of our findings and failure of the warring parties to protect civilians underscores the need for urgent and immediate intervention.
Our report therefore calls and recommends for the deployment of an independent, impartial force to protect civilians in the country.
We also call again on both sides to comply with their obligations under international law and immediately, unconditionally seize all attacks on the civilian population.
The people of Sudan have suffered greatly and the violations against them must stop.
This cannot be done without ending the fighting and also all of us might therefore be invested in reaching A sustainable ceasefire that would also enable the effective delivery of much needed humanitarian assistance.
While we work, we welcome the reopening of the Adria border crossing between Chad and Sudan.
We also found that both parties have obstructed humanitarian access, leading to severe escalation of the humanitarian crisis.
We call on all sides to abide by international humanitarian law and their Jidda and the Jidda Declaration commitments to provide unrestricted access to humanitarian aid providers to all areas of the Sudan.
We therefore call for the expansion of the existing embargo in Darfur.
Pass on to UN Security Council Resolution 1556 of 20 of 2004 and subsequent resolution to cover now the whole of the Sudan to stem the supply of weapons, ammunition and other logistics or financial support.
We call on all states to abide by their international legal obligations under the arms embargo and reiterate or rather caution that those supplying arms may be complicit in serious violations of human rights and international humanitarian law.
And now invite my fellow expert Joe Eziello to continue.
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Chair.
Specifically on women and children.
Conflict related sexual violence in Sudan has a long and tragic history, often used as a weapon of war to terrorise and control communities.
In the context of the current conflict, civilians, an overwhelming majority of whom are women and children, women and girls, swear and continue to be targeted with sexual violence, in particular ****, gang **** by both parties to the conflict.
Members of the RSF in particular, have perpetrated sexual violence on a large scale.
In the context of attacks on cities in Darfur region and the greater Khartoum area, victims recounted being attacked in their homes, beaten, lashed and threatened with death or harm to their relatives or children before being raped by more than one perpetrator.
They were also subjected to sexual violence while seeking shelter from attacks or fleeing.
We also found evidence of women being subjected to sexual slavery after being abducted by RSF members.
We also documented several cases of sexual violence, including **** and **** threats attributed to SAFF and its military intelligence, and received information concerning allegations of sexual exploitation of women and girls by SAFF in exchange for food in areas under their control.
However, further investigations are necessary to determine the extent and the patterns of sexual violence perpetrated by South in the context of the current conflict.
There are no comprehensive statistics of sexual and gender based violence in Sudan.
Sexual violence is also largely underreported due to social and cultural barriers, fear or stigma and and reprisals, an inadequate domestic legal framework, as well as the impact of the conflict on communication, security and access to health services.
Data received from confidential sources shows that at least 400 **** survivors sought assistant to service providers during the first year of the conflict, with the real figure being probably much higher.
Active conflict and widespread presence of armed fighters.
Multiple displacement, frequent communication blackouts, and the collapse of the health system in several parts of the country severely hampers the possibility of survivors of sexual violence to report an incident and receive support.
Survivors also describe the long lasting consequences of sexual violence on their physical and mental health and their social isolation.
Such violence also carries long term social impact on families and communities.
Children are also being recruited and used in hostilities, killed, injured, abducted and forcibly displaced, detained with adults, tortured, subjected to sexual violence and deprived of healthcare and education.
Many have also witnessed their parents, siblings, friends, neighbours subjected to the most heinous crime.
The re brutality of this war will have a devastating and long lasting psychological impact on children in Sudan.
The peace process will need to prioritise and adequately address the concerns and need of children to prevent Sudan being drawn into ongoing cycle of violence.
We found that SAF is responsible for killing and maiming of children and attacks on schools or hospitals during air strikes.
We also received credible information that self played a role in the training and and army of children who have joined the Popular Mobilisation.
We found that boys were arrested and held in RSF and SAF self detention facilities in Khartoum together with male detainees and subjected to acts of torture.
We found that RSF is responsible for recruitment and use of children, killing and maiming, **** and other forms of sexual violence against children, as well as attacks on schools and hospitals, notably in Darfur, Khartoum or Al Jazeera state.
It also found that boys were arrested and held in RSF detention facilities in Khartoum and Darfur together with male detainees and subjected to acts of torture and sexual violence.
I will now turn to over to my colleague Mona to continue.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
I will now turn to the findings of our fact finding mission.
As mentioned by my colleagues, our investigation have found that both parties and their respective allies have committed large scale violations of human rights and international humanitarian law since the start of conflict in mid-april 2023.
Many of these amount to international crimes.
In particular, we have found that both SAF and RSF conducted hostilities in densely populated areas, in particular through constant strikes and arterial shellings in different cities, including Khartoum and different cities in Darfur, amongst others, while failing to take sufficient measures to to minimise the impact on the civilian population.
We have found that civilian infrastructure and objects, including homes, schools, hospitals, water and electricity supplies and communication networks indispensable for the survivor of the civilian population, were attacked, damaged or destroyed by both sides.
Both sides also engaged in a pattern of arbitrary detention and torture, sometimes including sexual violence and ****.
As my colleague mentioned, Those documenting the violations or assess or assisting survivors, including legal and medical professionals as well as civil society members were also targeted.
Internet shutdown and impedement of humanitarian access in various forms, including administrative, administrative restrictions and insecurity, the looting of humanitarian aid and the attacks on humanitarian workers also were were conducted by both sides.
The RSF and its militias further committed a large scale ethnic based attacks on the non Arab civilian population, in particular the mass elites in Elginina and and around it in West Darfur.
This attack, which we documented very rigorously, comprised of horrific assaults, including killings, torture, **** and other forms of sexual violence, destruction of poverty, property and pillage.
On this basis, and on the basis of the above, we found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that both SAF and RSF and their respective allies.
Have committed the war crimes of violence against against life and person, in particular ****** of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture and committing outrageous upon personal dignity, in particular humiliation and degrading treatment.
We further found that the RSF and its allies committed the additional war crimes of **** and sexual slavery and and and any forms of indecent attacks, pillage of towns and places, conscripting or enlisting of children under the age of 15 or using them to participate actively in hostilities, intentionally directing attacks against civilian population and ordering the displacement of civilian populations for reasons related to the conflicts.
We also found that the RSF and its allied militias committed crimes against humanity, namely ******, torture, enslavement, ****, sexual slavery, acts of sexual nature of comparative gravity, persecution on the basis of of intersecting ethnicity and gender grounds, and forcible displacement of the population.
Given the gravity of these violations and amounting to international crimes and the dire need to break a cycle of impunity that Sudan has been engulfed with for many, many years, and to deliver justice to victims and survivors and their families and to the affected communities as a whole, criminal responsibility for all violations is key.
Therefore, we believe that the Sudanese authorities must first Co operate first and foremost, Co operate with the International Criminal Court and surrender all those indicted persons, including former President Omar Bashir, to the International Criminal Court.
We also call on the Security Council, as the chair just mentioned, to expand the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court, which has jurisdiction on the resolution 1593 of of 2005 to cover the entire country of Sudan.
We further call for the urgent establishment of a separate international judicial mechanism working in tandem and complementarity with the International Criminal Court to ensure accountability of all perpetrators or at all levels.
Our findings should serve as a wake up call to the international community to take decisive action to support survivors and their families and the affected communities and to hold the perpetrators to account.
Therefore, we have also, as we have also heard from Sudanese stakeholders about the overwhelming and the immediate need for assistance to survivors to the conflict.
We call for the establishment of a Victim Support and Reparations office to assist the victims of these conflicts.
We shouldn't only focus on the perpetrators.
The victims live in extremely dire situation, extremely difficult situation in refugee camps, in IDP camps across the country and outside the country.
They need our help and assistance and therefore we need a separate entity dedicated to their support.
I thank you and we are happy to take questions for further clarity.
I think you know very well that independent fact finding missions, their methodology and their reach is quite important.
And we as a fact finding mission relied on initially secondary sources, but we relied on 182 in depth one to one interviews with witnesses and out of the 182 witnesses for precision, 117 men and 67 women that form part of the findings of the fact finding mission for the Sudan.
Thank you very much.
OK, Thank you everyone for the opening remarks.
Now we'll start with the questions.
If you could please identify yourself in the media outlet you work for, please go ahead in the front.
Good morning.
Thank you for the press conference.
My name is Christopher, I work for Agence France Press.
I have quite a few questions, but the first one is on this independent and impartial force that you're asking for.
Can you give us a little bit more on that is first of all, where would it come from, what size would it have to have?
And and do you think that given the context, there is a chance that it could actually be put into place?
And then I had another question on the how, how can I phrase that?
And So what you described in Sudan is basically the worst conflict that we have right now in the world given the violations of international law, the scale.
So I was just wondering, why do you think that there is so little talk about this conflict?
And maybe just a a last one is there is a lot of there are a lot of difficulties with UN finances.
The budgets are very scarce.
Do you have the, the means you need to accomplish your mission?
Thank you.
Maybe just very briefly on the international force and, and I think the colleagues can, there are different models, of course.
I mean, this can be done by the United Nations and there has been, you know, in the neighbouring country in South Sudan, there is actually, you know, a mandate for the United Nations to protect civilians in particular countries.
This can also be done as we we know from also the African Union, so regional organisations can actually do that.
But also it can be done as part of an agreement of a, of a peace process.
It can be done in in different formats.
So the most important message that we want to say here is that the parties do not appear to give, to be given enough sufficient attention to the protection of civilians.
This is protectionist civilians is paramount and very important.
People are moving from 1 area to another, attacked, sheltered, bombarded, facing **** and torture at checkpoints.
It's it's very difficult situation inside the country and outside the country.
Some of the actors are actually still also operating in refugee camps in different areas.
So honestly this the the Sudanese people for we are talking about 46 + 1,000,000 people, they cannot be left on their own to face these two facing these two warring parties.
So we from our side there are of course there, there is a need for a political will and an international political will to protect the civilians in in Sudan if the warring parties are not caring enough about them.
And this is really our message here.
Yeah, Just also to speak to the question about how come so little is sad about this war.
I mean, that's really, I'm coming from Africa.
That has been a big question and people worry that is it is it because of of the continent or Africa and the past conflict that is ridden with conflict.
Why is so little hard about this conflict that we are thousands of people have died and not just died famine of millions of people.
As we speak, people are eating grasses, sand to stay alive.
People are children are malnourished, they are dying.
People are unable to bury their loved ones in very in cultures that that places a lot of emphasis on such.
And yet so little is is known about this conflict in the world.
Having done some field missions and being in charge and, you know, travelling widely and meeting refugees and thousands of them live professionals now destitute living in foreign lands, not knowing when this will end.
It's it's really heartbreaking and I think definitely the world need to do much more than this and linking this to resources, a lot of lack of of resources even for host countries that are hosting refugees like like like Chad and international community must do more to treat all cases of conflict and victims of displacement and and death.
That's why accountability is important.
But again the response of the international community and this must be on the front burner of international discussion.
Just on the resources aspect, we have a contingent of about 12 or 13 full time staff at the Fact Finding Mission Secretariat which is based in Nairobi at the UN office.
Of course, it is less than the 19 staff or so that was approved by the budget.
So two third of the staff are on board, which really enable us I think you know in the last three and a half, four months to be able to collect this, this, this information.
Thank you.
OK, thank you, Chair.
Let's take a question from the very back.
Please go ahead.
My name is Andre Matari.
I'm working for several Swiss news.
Oh, I'm sorry, I haven't seen you.
May I?
OK.
You're also asking for separate international judicial judicial mechanism.
What are you thinking of or which institution should create this, the Security Council?
And are you thinking of a special tribunal?
Thank you.
Thank you for the question.
In our report we explore because our mandate asked us to do that.
We explore options.
We say what is on the table.
We basically put all the various models and we will be doing this more and more.
We will put the models out there, you know, in separate papers, in, in, in separate separatation.
So what we can say is that right now there is a jurisdiction in Sudan, which is the International Criminal Court.
This jurisdiction is limited to 1 area in Darfur related to the conflict that happened 20 years ago.
Now the conflict, the conflict is on is ongoing and engulfing.
Now most of Sudan.
We cannot conclude that there are international crimes committed and say you cannot do anything about it.
There has to be accountability and the accountability can take 2 forms.
Expanding the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court to take to cover all the territory of Sudan, that is very important.
But as we know, and we know very well from practise of the International Criminal Court, so far it is focusing on the most responsible.
It will not touch.
There is the person who raped that woman in a particular detention centre in Nyala or Alginina and or this.
These people need to be held to account.
The fact that they were not held to account in previous conflicts it what made women the body, women's body as a theatre of operation for this war.
This has to stop and the only way to stop is to have an international judicial mechanism because there is no confidence.
Unfortunately, although Sudan has excellent lawyers and excellent judges, unfortunately the judiciary has been so politicised and so, so divided, taking part that there is no confidence at this stage.
So you need the judicial mechanism, how it would be established.
This is something that we need to work on and we need to look at different possibilities, different models.
It can be a separate international court completely, like Rwanda, Yugoslavia, all this stuff.
It can be a hybrid court with Sudanese and internationals.
It could be a special court like what happened in in Sierra Leone.
But the most important thing is that the trust in the current system, unfortunately in in Sudan, it has been so polarised that there is no trust in the national system.
And that's really very unfortunate.
Sudan deserves better and it has better.
It deserves much better.
Thank you.
Let's go to the very back and then we can go to Reuters first.
And then in the front, please go ahead Board ****** Phoenix TV from Hong Kong recording your last answers.
You know, in the August the United States organised meeting of humanitarian with several countries.
But this meeting doesn't real focus on the side fire or arms embargo.
So what do you feel about the solar mission and how do you think the international community could help or could affect the kind of the side fire and protecting civilians?
Thank you.
Yes, I think the, the, the, there are a lot of efforts in terms of trying to bring the parties to the negotiation table.
And in our view those efforts should continue.
They should be relentless, much as the parties have hesitancy in terms of having direct to direct negotiation.
But there are many ways of, of negotiating for peace.
And I think our report encourages that one, but also encourages a consolidation of the efforts.
There are many, many efforts by the African Union.
There are efforts by EGAD, there are efforts by the US and Saudi Arabia and so on and so forth.
But I think the, the, the, the, and also under those species of the, the Secretary general special envoy and those efforts, I think, you know, need consolidation.
But I think any party or any state that has an influence on the parties through the conflict, I think they must also play a role in convincing the parties to negotiating table.
Because I think there is consensus really that the hostilities must end, that there will be no winner in this conflict and that the best way is really for a pitfall for a peaceful settlement, however painfully might be to any of the parties.
Thank you.
Thank you.
OK, Now we'll take a question from Emma Farge from Reuters.
Hi, good morning.
I was wondering if you could give us a bit more of an idea of what you had in mind on the expanded arms embargo and why the current 1 isn't working.
And then, Joy, would you please elaborate a bit more on the the sexual violence by both sides?
I understood that both sides have committed that, but you have more evidence, I think, against the RSF.
If you could just elaborate a bit more and the scale of sexual slavery by the RSF.
And finally, just a clarification, you mentioned that you had reached out to the Sudanese authorities to get a response, to get their engagement, but you didn't say whether you'd reached out to the RSFI.
Was wondering if you had tried that and what sort of engagement you got from them, if any?
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
As as we noted, the issue of **** and the other forms of sexual violence, especially against women and children, are very rampant.
And we, we had and we met first hand also victims and survivors, including service providers that have, you know, tried within the limited resources to to and in a difficult, in very difficult circumstances to assist survivors.
And we know that we got more evidence, there is more evidence with regard to, to acts of **** and sexual violence committed by RSF.
And then also also some pointing also to serve.
Then just like we documented about 400, we gathered or even more from service providers.
But we think and they, they of course say from, from from the interlocutors that most of them are not reported and that some also got pregnant.
Because of course, we know about the stigma, the fear of even reprisals of mentioning names.
The shame, you know, the, the, the, the shame that comes with it also impedes reporting.
And again, even for women that ordinarily some reproductive health services should be available in hospitals, the hospitals are under tax infrastructure and they can't assess the healthcare they need.
So for now in our conclusion, both sides and then but you know, but then in terms of gathering evidence and and we still think that we need to deep dig with regards to sexual violence committed by SAF, but we have preponderance of evidence with regard to RSF.
Yes, OK, thank you.
Let's take a question from the front.
Please go ahead.
Sorry if I hope.
Sure there was just something left hanging.
The first one was on the arms embargo and then sorry on the RSF if they're engaged with the committee.
Thank you.
Yeah.
On the arms embargo, I think you know that the arms embargo covers Darfur.
It's been going on for many years.
It's a one year mandate.
In fact, the current 1 ends on the 12th of September, which is next week.
And it has been effective somehow.
But we think that since the conflict in Darfur is related to it cannot be separate from the conflict in other parts of the Sudan, that the starving the parties of arms and ammunition, including new supplies of ammunition and arms, will help in slowing down their appetite for hostilities.
So therefore, if you leave open the rest of Sudan and leave only an arms embargo in Darfur is not sufficient because of the, the, the permeability, you know, of, of the movement of, of forces.
And we know that in this conflict, the warring parties are moving from region to region, beginning from from Khartoum on Durman, Darfur, and now extending to 14 out of the 18 states.
So we think that that also is something that should be worth considering.
Of course, cooperation with RSF.
The RSF had approached the President of the Human Rights Council to express their readiness to cooperate with us and we at the Secretariat level begin engaging at least with their, with their legal officers or legal, legal, legal officers.
And we remain open really to engage with the parties in order to remind them of their obligation, but also they have a responsibility really in terms of in our oral update, we called on the parties, for example, in April this year for the parties to issue directives to their troops to Respect International human rights and humanitarian, humanitarian law.
So I think we will continue to to engage with the with the partisan to remind them of the obligations and international law and international human rights law.
Thank you.
OK, thank you.
Another question from the front freelancer for Middle East, Middle East media outlets.
I have two questions.
Why did you make your report from inside Sudan?
Why?
Why you didn't make it inside of Sudan?
You make it for outside of Sudan, OK.
And you have mentioned that on your report, countries must stop providing arms to the conflict parties.
Did you talk with these countries Because the Sudanese people has been talking about UAE, United Arab Emirates as the provider of arms to RSF?
Yeah, 2 Two things.
One, you know that Sudan opposes the mandate, but it is our obligation as an independent international fight finding mission to continue to seek the cooperation of the state concern which is Sudan.
So we have since our establishment made official request I think for in all to meet with Sudanese authority to visit Sudan.
So Sudan does not cooperate with us.
But cooperation or non cooperation, fact finding missions continue to do their work because there are methodologies that arrive at sound evidence based findings and conclusions.
But we will continue as I said to seek the cooperation of Sudan.
With regard to neighbouring states, we have done the same and we are happy that Chad and we had an extended three-week mission by investigation team and ourselves to Chad.
We were able to to to collect a lot of material, a lot of evidence and so on.
We were in Kenya and Nairobi, we were in in Uganda also.
But also we seek there are other neighbouring countries.
I think we very, very important, South Sudan, Ethiopia, Egypt, Central African Republic that we have approached and we'll continue to urge them to cooperate because access is essential.
Also for us.
It's very important to tell a full story.
And we know that Sudanese refugees, the 2 million that we say are in all these countries.
So it's important for us really to have access to be able to as much as possible tell the story of each and every person.
Yeah.
Concerning the the arms embargo, our mandate does not specifically ask us to investigate the supply of arms.
There is Aun Security Council panel that deals with that in respect to in respect to to Darfur.
And our report is evidence based.
I think if there was evidence based on the standards required for our report by another independent body, we will be able to consider it.
So we are open to any information to that effect.
We are aware for example, some countries like EU has, has taken some measures in terms of sanctioning and so on and the UN Security Council sanctions committee and so forth.
So I think we are open to to do that.
But what our focus really is that the supply of arms in Sudan and ammunition in Sudan is one of the factors that is continues to fuel the conflict and therefore that should be addressed.
And in our modest contribution, we think that that arms embargo should cover the whole of the Sudan.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Let's take a couple questions from online.
I don't know if is Jamie Keaton there.
If not, let's go to Lawrence Ciero first from the Swiss News Agency.
And we'll come back to Jamie if he gets back.
Please go ahead.
Yeah, Thank you for cooking.
Thank you for taking my question.
A bunch of quick question.
First, there is only a brief mention in the report about the siege, siege of Health Asher by RSF.
How would you qualify that as a, as a crime?
And then same thing for starvation.
I, I just see a brief mention of starvation, voluntary starvation.
How would you qualify that as a crime as well?
And the third would be coming back to the, the independent, the force that you would like to, to, to be set up.
Are you calling today concretely the security, the UN Security Council to call for a session where they should consider Chapter 7?
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
With regard to Al Fisher, let me start with this, with the hunger and famine in Al Fisher.
It's not a small thing that the IPC actually came to the conclusion that there is a panel.
This is a ****, there is famine.
This, this is a **** threshold that unfortunately in the case of Sudan, it has been met.
The Security Council called on the siege of Al Fisher to end.
This hasn't really been respected.
And this is extremely serious that the city of that is hosted thousands and thousands of people, perhaps million is is under siege in the way in the way it is from our side.
Of course, the starvation is is is very serious is very it's needs to be fully documented.
We haven't gone to the issue of whether this famine and the starvation as a method or the starvation starvation as could constitute war crime and crime against humanity.
If you, if you want, we, we in our investigation have touched on these issues and we do say, say that the siege by itself is, is really putting the humanitarian, the civilian population at a very, very serious risk.
We need to look more into it in terms of the deliberate policies, in terms of the, you know, prohibition of and the intention basically to starve the civilian population.
We need to look more, a lot more into this.
But from what we are seeing right now is an extremely worrying situation and it compounds other war crimes and crimes against humanity that are being committed right now.
So it's a very, very serious situation.
In terms of the international force, as I said, there are several options.
I don't want us to basically say, OK, we call on one entity to do something because this entity could be the right format or the wrong format because we know the political situation in the world today.
What I think what is important is the end result.
The end result is the civilian population in Sudan need protection and this is not happening today.
There are projections on the famine with very stark numbers by the end of this year and this cannot continue.
We cannot continue to have the the people dying in front of our eyes and we do nothing about it.
So that's really so we are not going to be go into this one entity.
There are several institutions that have direct responsibility to actually stop what is going on in the in Sudan.
And one of them is definitely the Security Council.
But it's not only the Security Council.
Others have a role as well.
Thank you.
Let's go to a Jamie Keaton from Associated Press Online.
Thanks, Todd, and thank you to to the fact finding mission members.
It seems to me that that the fighting sides have largely ignored all these calls or a halt to the conflict and for respect for civilians and other things, but maybe the international community will be a little bit more receptive.
Your report makes no reference to which countries should be held accountable for possible complicity in war crimes or crimes against humanity.
So could you please tell us which countries you have in mind and why do you not specifies those countries in the report?
Thank you so much.
Yeah, thank you very much.
As we said, our report is based on on the evidence that we have collected.
OK.
And we have in terms of allocating individual responsibility, individuals and entities and we have dossiers also that we have open in terms of in terms of those we think should be held accountable.
Of course in an investigation like this, it is still at a lower threshold in terms of really accusing anybody.
We are not an accusatory body or prosecutorial body.
We are investigative body that has collected evidence and our report says clearly that we have individual and entities responsible have been have been have been identified in those years prepared for that.
Thank you.
Just like the Chair say we are, we are fact finding independent international fact finding mission and there is the evidence that we gather that that forms help us to form some conclusion and recommendation.
We are very, very eager to see an end to the hostilities.
And you're right in pointing out that various parties have ignored all the calls for ceasefire.
But we must continue to push for accountability.
And in our report and recommendation, we made it very clear that protection of civilian is paramount.
And importantly, that those who are complicit in the supply of arms may also be implicated for for in terms of war crimes and crime against humanity.
Because once you establish that chain, and we're still working and investigating and we had, we have to collaborate with other agencies, including ICC and also have those kind of evidence, we will also pass it on to the appropriate quarters that can take it further in terms of prosecution.
But it's important to continue to emphasise that the supply of weapons, ammunition or other logistical assistance or even financial assistance to the warring parties, those doing that run a risk of also being held accountable for violations of human rights and international humanitarian law.
Thank you.
Thank you.
OK, we'll take one last question from Jeremy Launch.
We'll have to be quick because we have to wrap this up in about 3 minutes.
So please, Jeremy, go ahead.
I'll be super quick.
It's just cynical details.
I'd like to make sure that I I got this right.
Both sides are accused of having committed war crimes but when it comes to crimes against humanity the report mentioned is mentioning more the RSF then the Sudanese armed forces.
Do you correct me if I'm if I'm wrong but this is what I read and and the same thing for the recruitment of child soldiers.
When I read the report, it seems that you're you're again RSF.
I've been accused of, of recruiting child soldiers.
But when I hear the spread breaking, I think I I heard a bit earlier that that the Sudanese Armed Forces have also recruited child soldiers.
Can you just clarify that for me?
Thank you.
No, thank you very much for the question.
I just want to actually point you to the relevant paragraph, paragraphs in the report, which is paragraph.
Sorry, I'm just here.
I'll, I'll get it in a second.
Basically what we are saying is that there are war crimes for by both sides, particularly on bombardment and chilling, indiscriminate attacks against the civilian population, as well as torture.
In addition, there are crimes against humanity, meaning there are intentional policies, attacks against the civilian population, particularly by RSF.
And then we name quite a few, which I, I outlined them in my, in my intervention for, for particularly sexual slavery, ethnic based killings in Elginina against the mass elites and persecution and so on.
With regard to the recruitment of children, don't forget we are talking about the Allied forces.
The Allied forces themselves have engaged and both sides have engaged.
In recruitment of children, so there are forces allied to SAF itself.
SAF is mobilising and sometimes it's mobilising in schools, but it's allied forces have been recruiting children and have been using children in combat.
And that's where the distinction that you find in our report.
It is much more systematic and widespread on the base by RSF, but also unfortunately, and that has to stop because staff made a lot of commitments.
The government of Sudan made commitments including in when it ratified the optional protocol and the use of children in conflict.
It made commitments that it will not, neither even on voluntary basis.
We will not even accept volunteers under 18 right now.
It's the situation is, is very different.
So that's what we are saying if you want.
OK, thank you everyone.
Unfortunately, we have to wrap this up.
If you have any follow up questions, please contact me directly.
We'll we'll get you in touch with the experts.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.