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HRC - Press Conference: Independent International Fact-Finding Mission for the Sudan
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HRC - Press Conference: Independent International Fact-Finding Mission for the Sudan

ENG FRA

Story: Sudan human rights probe findings

 TRT: 04’37”
SOURCE: UNTV CH
LANGUAGE: ENGLISH / NATS
ASPECT RATIO: 16:9
DATELINE: 06 September 2024 - GENEVA, SWITZERLAND
RESTRICTIONS: NONE

Speakers:

  • Mohamed Chande Othman, Chair of the Fact-Finding Mission
  • Joy Ngozi Ezeilo, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission
  • Mona Rishmawi, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission



SHOTLIST

  1. Exterior medium shot: UN Geneva flag alley.
  2. Wide shot of the podium and Press room.
  3. SOUNDBITE (English) Mohamed Chande Othman, Chair of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Since mid-April 2023, the conflict in Sudan has spread to 14 out of the 18 states impacting the entire country and the region, leaving eight million Sudanese internally displaced as a result of the conflict, with two million - over two million - who have been forced to flee to neighbouring countries.”
  4. Medium-wide, podium speakers and Press room.
  5. SOUNDBITE (English): Mona Rishmawi, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Our investigation has found that both parties and their respective allies have committed large-scale violations of human rights and international humanitarian law since the start of the conflict in mid-April 2023. Many of these amount to international crimes. In particular, we have found that both SAF and RSF conducted hostilities in densely-populated areas, in particular through constant strikes and artillery shellings in different cities, including Khartoum and different cities in Darfur, amongst others.”
  6. Medium-wide, podium speakers, Press photographer.
  7. SOUNDBITE (English): Joy Ngozi Ezeilo, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Members of the RSF in particular have perpetrated sexual violence on a large scale in the context of attacks on cities in Darfur region and the greater Khartoum area.”
  8. Medium, Press photographer, journalists.
  9. SOUNDBITE (English): Joy Ngozi Ezeilo, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Victims recounted being attacked in their homes, beaten, lashed and threatened with death or harm to their relatives or children before being raped by more than one perpetrator. They were also subjected to sexual violence while seeking shelter from attacks or fleeing. We also found evidence of women being subjected to sexual slavery after being abducted by RSF members.”
  10. Medium, journalists, seated.
  11. SOUNDBITE (English): Mona Rishmawi, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “The RSF and its militias further committed a large-scale ethnic-based attacks on the non-Arab civilian population, in particular the Masalits in El Geneina and around it in West Darfur. This attack - which we documented very rigorously - comprised of horrific assaults, including killings, torture, rape and other forms of sexual violence, destruction of property and pillage.”
  12. Medium-wide, podium speakers and Press photographer.
  13. SOUNDBITE (English): Mona Rishmawi, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Maybe just very briefly on the international force and I think the colleagues can… There are different models, of course. I mean, this can be done by the United Nationsand there has been, you know, in the neighbouring country, in South Sudan, there is actually, you know, a mandate for the United Nations to protect civilians in particular countries. This can also be done, as we know, from also the African Union, so regional organizations can actually do that.”
  14. Medium, journalists.
  15. SOUNDBITE (English) Mohamed Chande Othman, Chair of the Fact-Finding Mission: “Starving the parties of arms and ammunition including new supplies of ammunition and arms will help in slowing down the appetite for hostilities.”
  16. Medium, journalist.
  17. SOUNDBITE (English): Mona Rishmawi, Expert Member of the Fact-Finding Mission: “SAF is mobilizing and sometimes is mobilizing in schools, but its allied forces have been recruiting children and have been using children in combat. And that’s where the distinction that you find in our report. It is much more systematic and widespread by RSF.”
  18. Medium, video journalist adjusting camera.
  19. Medium, journalist looking up.

Sudan crisis: Rights investigators demand arms embargo extension to end ‘rampant’ abuses

Top human rights investigators into Sudan’s brutal war called on Friday for a country-wide arms embargo as they recounted harrowing testimony of victims of horrific sexual attacks whose bodies are treated as a “theatre of operation” by fighters acting with total impunity.

“Since mid-April 2023, the conflict in Sudan has spread to 14 out of the 18 states impacting the entire country and the region, leaving eight million Sudanese internally displaced as a result of the conflict, with two million - over two million - forced to flee to neighbouring countries,” said Mohamed Chande Othman, Chair of the Independent International Fact-Finding Mission for the Sudan.  

In its first report on the crisis after being created by the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva in October 2023, the panel insisted that rival militaries the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) and the Rapid Support Forces (RSF), as well as their respective allies, were responsible for large-scale, indiscriminate and direct attacks involving airstrikes and shelling against civilians, schools, hospitals, communication networks and vital water and electricity supplies – indicating a total disregard for the protection of non-combatants.

The three independent rights experts leading the work of the Mission - Mohamed Chande Othman, Chair, Joy Ngozi Ezeilo and Mona Rishmawi – emphasized that the responsibility for the grave violations lay with “both parties and their respective allies” with many amounting to international crimes.

“In particular, we have found that both SAF and RSF conducted hostilities in densely-populated areas, in particular through constant strikes and artillery shellings in different cities, including Khartoum and different cities in Darfur, amongst others,” said Ms. Rishmawi.

Although the Government of Sudan has refused to cooperate with the fact-finding Mission after rejecting its mandate, investigators have gathered first-hand testimony from 182 survivors, family members and eyewitnesses. Extensive consultations with experts and civil society activists have also been conducted to corroborate and verify additional leads.

“Members of the RSF in particular have perpetrated sexual violence on a large scale in the context of attacks on cities in Darfur region and the greater Khartoum area,” insisted Ms. Ezeilo. “Victims recounted being attacked in their homes, beaten, lashed and threatened with death or harm to their relatives or children before being raped by more than one perpetrator. They were also subjected to sexual violence while seeking shelter from attacks or fleeing. We also found evidence of women being subjected to sexual slavery after being abducted by RSF members.”

The panel’s report also offered insight into “large-scale, ethnic-based attacks on the non-Arab civilian population” – and in particular, the Masalit people - in El Geneina, the capital of West Darfur, an ethnically diverse city to around 540,000 people. Shortly after the outbreak of war in April 2023, the RSF and allied militia attacked the city, killing thousands, the investigators said, with “horrific assaults…torture, rape” and the destruction of property and pillage the norm.

“Masalit men were systematically targeted for killing,” the Mission’s report continued. “RSF and its allied militias went door to door in Masalit neighborhoods, looking for men and brutally attacking and killing them, sometimes in front of their families. Lawyers, doctors, human rights defenders, academics, community and religious leaders were apparently specifically targeted. RSF commanders reportedly issued orders to ‘comb the city’ and place checkpoints throughout”.

Highlighting the failure of the Sudanese military to protect civilians in cities and camps for those uprooted by the war, the rights experts urged the international community to extend the current arms embargo on the Darfurs to the whole of the country. “Starving the parties of arms and ammunition including new supplies of ammunition and arms will help in slowing down the appetite for hostilities,” said Mr. Othman.

The investigators also urged the establishment of a peacekeeping force by the international community, either under the purview of the UN or a regional body:

“This can be done by the United Nations and there has been, you know, in the neighbouring country, in South Sudan, there is actually, you know, a mandate for the United Nations to protect civilians in particular countries,” said Ms. Rishmawi. “This can also be done, as we know, from also the African Union, so regional organizations can actually do that.”

The breakdown in law and order in Sudan is such that children are widely recruited to take part in the conflict, too, the investigators said. “SAF is mobilizing and sometimes is mobilizing in schools, but its allied forces have been recruiting children and have been using children in combat. And that’s where the distinction that you find in our report. It is much more systematic and widespread by RSF,” Ms. Rishmawi noted.

“There has to be accountability” for this and other crimes, she continued, in a call for the creation of a special tribunal to hold perpetrators to account for the grave crimes continuing across Sudan with total impunity.

“These people need to be held to account. The fact that they were not held to account in previous conflicts is what made women the women's body, as a theater of operation for this war. This has to stop, and the only way to stop is to have an international judicial mechanism because there is no confidence,” she said.

Teleprompter
OK,
OK, Uh, good morning, everybody. Sorry for the slight delay.
Um, we're ready to get started now.
Um, thank you all very much for joining us today at this, uh,
press conference at the Palais de N.
Um, we're pleased to have us.
Uh, have, uh,
with us today all three members of the
independent International Fact finding mission for the Sudan
who wanted to take this opportunity to speak to
you about the findings of their latest report.
Um, with us in the centre is, uh, the chair, Uh, Mr Mohammed
Chade
Othman.
Um, uh, to my right is, uh, Miss Joy in Ngozi
Izo.
And on the far side is, uh, Miss Mona Rish
Maui.
Um, as you may know,
the fact finding mission was created by the Human Rights Council in October 2023
to investigate and establish the facts,
circumstances and root causes of all alleged human rights violations and abuses
and violations of international humanitarian law.
In the context of the conflict that began in April 2023
Their latest report was published online this morning.
It will be officially presented to the Human
Rights Council at the start of next week.
And now I hand over to the chair for opening remarks followed by our fellow experts.
And then we'll open the floor to questions.
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you very much. And good morning.
Yeah. Let me on behalf of my colleagues and myself,
by way of introduction.
Uh, just reiterate that
following our establishment by the Human Rights Council
on 11th of October 2023
the International
the independent International fact finding mission
further, Sudan commenced its
its work.
And we
are expecting
on 10 September to present our report to the Human Rights Council
to begin with A
I think it is important to reiterate that
the work of a commission like ours requires co operation and consultation.
And
in the conduct of our in depth investigation,
we have undertaken 100 and 28
in depth interviews
with individuals
and also following our call for submissions,
we received over 700 submissions
from various entities
an organisation, individuals, experts
and so on. So
our findings are based on
very wide consultations.
Another distinctive feature of this commission
is
cooperations with Sudan.
Despite four requests that we made between January and August this year
for meetings and access to Sudan.
Unfortunately, the Sudanese authorities
have not engaged with our mandate to date.
However,
we will continue to pursue these efforts and remain open
to engaging with all the parties
to the conflict.
But we have also engaged
neighbouring states
and we have received access
to Kenya where our secretariat is based
Chad in Uganda
and we continue also
to request access to Egypt, Ethiopia,
south Sudan
and the Central African Republic,
which is crucial also in gaining additional firsthand information
and therefore also to effectively
carry on this mandate.
But in terms of the
requirements of Resolution 54 2,
it had also required us to engage
with many other entities that are involved in the Sudan
conflict in the Sudanese situation.
So we have worked closely
with the High Commissioner for Human Rights and his designated experts
on Sudan,
the United Nations Security Council panel of experts on Sudan,
the UN secretary general's personal envoy for Sudan,
the Sudan County Representative of the African Commission
on Human and People's Rights,
including also the a U
special envoy for the prevention of the crime of genocide
and mass social crimes.
Our mandate, however, and this we want to insist
is separate and distinct in scope
than the other mandates. But co ordination is necessary,
of course, to avoid overlap and duplication of efforts
in discharging our mandate. We have also had excessive consultation
with Sudanese civil society organisations,
community leaders, human rights defenders,
subject matter experts
and other stakeholders. And we want to thank all organisations and individuals.
They have extended
their hands and also for those who have recounted the Horrow stories of
the conflict.
Now let me turn to the conflict.
Since mid April 2023
the conflict in Sudan
has spread to 14
out of the 18 states
impacting the entire country
in the region,
leaving
8 million Sudanese internally displaced as a result of the conflict
with 2 million over 2 million who
have been forced to flee
to neighbouring countries.
That makes a total of 10 million
people either displaced
or
in refugee status outside Sudan.
Over 100 and five countries in this world
have a population
of less than 10 million,
so you could see the impact that it has
in terms of a devastating effect.
But I think also it is our view and our finding that the conflict remains protracted.
It has engulfed, as you said, the whole of territory affecting
the whole of Sudan.
And there are more than two warring parties because both the two parties
rely
on allied militia
and other
irregular forces.
So the true scale, however,
is yet to be known due to the ongoing conflict where there are many
thousands of civilian men, women and Children
who have been killed
or who have been wounded
and have suffered extensively.
Turning to our findings,
we have found that the Sudanese warring parties
that mainly the Sudanese
armed forces serve
and the rapid support forces, RSF and their respected allies
have committed an appalling range of violations.
And as my fellow expert Mona Rishwa
will further detail,
we found reasonable grounds
to believe that many of these violations
amount to international crimes
violations. Established took different forms
based on intersecting grounds, including gender and age,
and their impact will last for decades to come.
Urgent assistance is needed, in particular survivors of rape
and other forms of sexual violence, including
Children.
As my fellow expert
Joe Ngozi
as
Yellow will explain
the gravity of our findings and failure of the warring parties to protect civilians
underscores the need
for urgent and immediate intervention.
Our report therefore
calls and recommends for the deployment of an independent,
impartial force
to protect civilians
in the country.
We also call again on both sides
to comply with their obligations under international law
and immediately and unconditionally
seize all attacks on the civilian population.
The people of Sudan have suffered greatly
and the violations against them must stop.
This cannot be done without ending the fighting
and all efforts might therefore be invested
in reaching a sustainable ceasefire
That would also enable the effective delivery
of mass needed humanitarian assistance.
While we welcome the reopening of the Adri border crossing between Chad
and Sudan,
we also found that both parties have obstructed humanitarian access,
leading to a severe escalation
of the humanitarian crisis.
We call on all sides to abide by international humanitarian law
and the
and the Jeddah Declaration commitments
to provide unrestricted access
to humanitarian aid providers
to all areas of Sudan.
We there for call
for the expansion of the existing
embargo
in Darfur passed on to UN Security Council resolution
1556
22,004
and subsequent resolution
to cover now
the whole of Sudan
to stem the supply of weapons, ammunition and other logistics
of financial support.
We call on all states to abide by their international legal
obligations under the arms embargo
and reiterate or rather, caution
that those supplying arms may be complicit in
serious violations of human rights
and international humanitarian law.
I now invite my fellow expert, Joe
Elo,
uh, to continue.
Thank you chair
Thank you Chair
specifically on women and Children.
Conflict
related sexual violence in Sudan
has a long and tragic history,
often used as a weapon of war
to terrorise and control communities
in the context of the current conflict,
civilians,
an overwhelming majority of whom are women
and Children,
women and girls, were
and continue to be targeted with sexual violence,
in particular rape gang rape by both parties to the conflict.
Members of the RSF
in particular, have perpetrated sexual violence on a large scale
in the context of attacks on cities in Darfur region
and the greater Khartoum area.
Victims recounted being attacked in their homes,
beaten,
lashed
and threatened with death
or harm
to their relatives or Children
before being raped by more
than one perpetrator.
They were also subjected to sexual violence
while seeking shelter
from attacks or fleeing.
We also found evidence
of women being subjected
to sexual slavery after being abducted by RSF members.
We also documented several cases of sexual violence,
including
rape
and rape threats
attributed to S
A
and its military intelligence,
and received information concerning allegations of
sexual exploitation of women and girls
by itself in exchange for food in areas under their control.
However, further investigations are necessary to determine
the extent and the patterns of sexual violence perpetrated by
in the context of the current conflict.
There are no comprehensive statistics of sexual
and gender based violence in Sudan.
Sexual violence is also largely under
reported
due to social and cultural barriers, fear or stigma and
and Reprisals,
an inadequate domestic legal framework as well as the impact of the conflict on
communication,
security and access to health services.
Data received from confidential
sources
shows that at least 400 rape survivors sought assistance to
service providers during the first year of the conflict,
with the real figure being probably much higher.
Active conflict and widespread presence of armed fighters,
multiple displacement,
frequent communication blackouts
and the collapse of the health system
in several parts of the country severely hampers the possibility of
survivors of sexual violence to report an incident and receive support.
Survivors also describe the long lasting consequences of sexual violence
on their physical and mental health and their social isolation.
Such violence also carries long term
social impact on families and communities.
Children are also being recruited and used in hostilities killed,
injured,
abducted
and forcibly displaced, detained with adult tortured,
subjected to sexual violence
and deprived of health care and education.
Many have also witnessed their parents, siblings, friends,
neighbours subjected to the most heinous crimes.
The rare brutality of this war will have a devastating
and long lasting psychological
impact on Children in Sudan.
The peace process will need to prioritise
and adequately address
the concerns and need of Children.
To prevent Sudan being drawn into ongoing cycle of violence.
We found that S
A
is responsible for killing
and maiming of Children
and attacks on schools or hospitals during air strikes.
We also received credible information
that have played a role in the training
and and
army. I mean of Children who have joined the popular mobilisation.
We found that boys were arrested and held in
RSF and
S, a
detention facilities in Khartoum,
together with male detainees and subjected to acts of torture.
We found that RSF is responsible
for recruitment and use of Children,
killing and maiming, rape and other forms of sexual violence against Children,
as well as attacks on schools and hospitals, notably
in Darfur,
Khartoum
or Al Jazeera state.
It also found that boys were arrested
and held in RSF
detention facilities in Khartoum
and therefore, together with male detainees and subjected to acts of torture
and sexual violence. I will now turn
to
over to my colleague Mona to continue. Thank you,
thank you very much.
I will now turn to the findings of our
fact finding mission
as mentioned by my colleagues. Our investigation has found that both parties
and their respective allies have committed large scale violations of human rights
and international humanitarian law since the start of conflict in mid April 2023
many of these amount to international crimes
in particular. We have found that both SA
and
conducted hostilities in densely populated areas
in particular through constant strikes and artillery shellings in
different cities, including
Khartoum
and different cities in Darfur
amongst others,
while failing to take sufficient measures to
minimise the impact on the civilian population.
We have found
that civilian infrastructure and objects including homes, schools, hospitals,
water and electricity supplies and communication networks
indispensable for the survivor of the civilian population were attacked,
damaged or destroyed by both sides.
Both sides also engaged in a pattern of
arbitrary detention and torture, sometimes including sexual violence and rape.
As my colleague mentioned,
those documenting the violations
or
assisting survivors,
including legal and medical professionals as well
as civil society members were also targeted.
Internet shutdown and impediment of humanitarian access in various forms,
including administrative
administrative restrictions
and insecurity. The looting of humanitarian aid
and the attacks on humanitarian workers also
were conducted by both sides
and its militias further committed a large scale
ethnic based attacks on the non Arab civilian population, in particular the mes
S in
al
Jina and around it in West Darfur.
This
attack,
which we documented
very
rigorously
comprised of horrific assaults
including killings, torture, rape and other forms of sexual violence,
destruction of poverty,
property and pillage.
On this basis
and on the basis of the above,
we found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that both
S
and
and their respective allies have committed
the war crimes of violence
against life and person in particular, murder of all kinds mutilation,
cruel treatment and torture,
and committing outrages upon personal dignity,
in particular humiliation and degrading treatment.
We further found that the RS
and its allies committed the additional war crimes of rape and sexual slavery
and any forms of indecent
attacks, pillage of towns and places,
conscripting on enlisting of Children under the age of 15
or using them
to participate actively in hostilities,
intentionally directing attacks against civilian population
and ordering the displacement of civilian populations,
for instance, related to the conflicts.
We also found that the
and its allied militias committed crimes against humanity,
namely murder, torture, enslavement, rape, sexual slavery, acts of sexual nature
of comparative gravity,
persecution on the basis of intersecting ethnicity and gender
grounds
and forcible displacement of the population.
Given the gravity of these violations
and amounting to international crimes
and the dire need to break a cycle of impunity
that Sudan has been engulfed with for many, many years
and to deliver justice
to victims and survivors and their families and
to the affected communities as a whole,
Criminal responsibility
for all violations is key.
Therefore,
we believe
that the Sudanese authorities
must first co-operate first and foremost co-operate
with the International Criminal Court and surrender
all those indicted persons, including former President
Amar Bashir,
to the International Criminal Court.
We also call on the Security Council as the chair just
mentioned to expand the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court,
which has jurisdiction under Resolution 1593
2005
to cover the entire country of Sudan.
We further call for the urgent establishment
of a separate international judicial mechanism,
working in tandem and complementarity with the International
Criminal Court to ensure accountability of all perpetrators at
all levels.
Our findings should serve as a wake up call to the international community
to take decisive action to support survivors
and their families and the affected communities
and to hold
the perpetrators
to account.
Therefore, we have also,
as we have also heard from Sudanese stakeholders
about the overwhelming and immediate need for
assistance to survivors to the conflict.
We call for the establishment of a victim support and
Reparations Office to assist the victims of these conflicts.
We shouldn't only focus on the perpetrators.
The victims live in an extremely dire situation. Extremely difficult situation
in refugee camps, in
camps across the country and outside the country.
They need our help and assistance,
and therefore, we need a separate entity dedicated to their support. I thank you,
and we are happy to take questions,
uh, for further clarity.
I think you know very well that
independent fact finding missions,
their methodology and their reach is quite important.
And
we, as a fact finding mission,
relied on
initially secondary
sources. But we relied
on 100 and 82
in depth,
1 to 1, interviews
with witnesses,
and out of the 182
witnesses
for precision 117
men and 67 women
that form part of,
uh, the the the findings of the
EEF
finding mission. Uh, for the Sudan. Uh,
thank you very much.
OK, Thank you everyone, for the opening remarks.
Um, now we'll start with the questions.
If you could please, uh, identify yourself in the media outlet you work for.
Um, please go ahead in the front.
Good morning. Thank you for the press conference. My name is Christoph Vogel.
I work for
France.
I have quite a few questions, but, uh, the first one is on this, uh,
independent and impartial force that you're asking for.
can you give USA little bit more on that is, uh, first of all, where would it come from?
Um, what size would it have to have? And
And do you think that, uh,
given the context that there is a chance that it could actually be put into place?
Uh, and then, uh, I had, uh, another question on, um
the
how can I phrase that?
So what you described in Sudan is basically the worst
conflict that we have right now in the world,
given the violations of international law, the scale.
So I was just wondering,
why do you think that there is so little talk about this conflict?
And, um, maybe just a last one is, um
there is a lot of, uh there are a lot of difficulties with
UN finances, and the budgets are very scarce.
Do you have the
the means? You need to accomplish your mission. Thank you.
Maybe just very briefly on the international force. And I think the colleagues can
There are different models. Of course.
I mean this can be done by the United Nations and
there has been in the neighbouring country in south Sudan.
There is, actually, you
know,
a
mandate for the United Nations to protect civilians in particular countries.
This can also be done
as we know from also the African Union,
so regional organisations can actually do that.
But also it can be done as part of an agreement of a peace process.
It can be done in different formats.
So the most important message that we want to say here is that
the parties do not appear
to give to be given enough sufficient attention to the protection of civilians.
This is protection of civilians is paramount and very important.
People are moving from one area to another, attacked, sheltered,
bombarded,
facing rape and torture at checkpoints.
It's very difficult
situation inside the country and outside the country.
Some of the actors are actually still also
operating in refugee camps in different areas.
So
honestly, the Sudanese people
we are talking about 46 plus million people.
They cannot be left on their own to face these two
facing these two warring parties, so from our side.
There are of course,
there is a need for a political will.
An international political will to protect the civilians in Sudan
if the warring parties are not caring enough about them.
And
this is really our message here?
sure.
Just also to speak to the question about
how come so little it sad about this war.
I mean, that's really and coming from Africa. That has been a big question
and people worry that is it is it because of the continent
of Africa and the past conflict that is reading with conflict?
Why is so little about this conflict that we are?
Thousands of people have died and not just died. Famine
of millions of people as we speak, people are eating grasses, sand to stay alive.
People Children are malnourished, they are dying.
People are unable to bury their loved ones in
cultures that that places a lot of emphasis on such and
yet so little is known about this conflict in the world.
Having done some field missions and being in Chad and travelling widely
and meeting refugees and thousands of them live professionals now destitute,
living in foreign lands, not knowing when this will end.
It's really heartbreaking.
And I think definitely the world needs to do much more than this
and link
in these
resources.
A lot of lack of resources, even for host countries that are hosting refugees like
Chad
and international community must do more to treat
all cases of conflict and victims of displacement
and debt. That's why accountability is important. But again,
the response of the international community and this must
be on the front burner of international discussion.
Just
on the resources aspect.
We have a contingent of about 12 or 13 full time
staff at
the
fact finding Mission Secretariat,
which is based in Nairobi at the UN Office.
Of course, it is less than the E
19 staff or so that was approved
by the budget. So two thirds of the staff are on board.
Uh, which really enable us. I think,
uh, you know, in the last 3.5, 4 months,
uh, to be able to collect this,
eh? Eh?
This, uh, this information. Thank you.
Ok, thank you. Chair. Um, let's take a question from the very back,
please. Go ahead.
My name is an
Mari.
I'm working for uh, several Swiss
news agents.
I saw you. I haven't seen you,
but yeah,
it's OK.
Ok,
you are also asking for, um
uh,
separate, uh,
international traditional
judicial mechanism.
What are you thinking of or which
institution should create this? The Security Council.
And are you thinking
of a special tribunal?
Thank you.
Thank you for the question.
In our report, we explore because our mandate asked us to do that.
We explore options, we say what is on the table.
We basically put all the various models and we will be doing this more and
we will put the models out there
in separate papers in separate separate issues.
So what we can say is that right now there is a jurisdiction in Sudan,
which is the International Criminal Court.
This jurisdiction
is limited to one area in Darfur related to the conflict that happened 20 years ago.
Now the
the conflict is ongoing and engulfing. Now most of Sudan,
we cannot conclude that there are international crimes committed
and say you cannot do anything about it.
There has to be accountability,
and the accountability can take two forms expanding
the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court to take
to cover all the territory of Sudan.
That is very important.
But as we know and we know very well from practise of the International
Criminal Court so far, it is focusing on
the
most responsible.
It will not touch the person who raped that woman in a particular
detention certain
in
Nyala or
Genina, and these people need to be held to account
the fact that they were not held to account in previous conflicts. It what made women
the
women's body as a theatre of operation for this war.
This has to stop,
and the only way to stop is to have an international judicial mechanism
because
there is no confidence.
Unfortunately, although Sudan has excellent lawyers and excellent judges,
unfortunately the judiciary has been so politicised
and so,
so
divided taking part that there is no confidence at this stage.
So you need a judicial mechanism how it would be established.
This is something that we need to work on,
and
we need to look at different possibilities, different models. It can be
a separate international court completely like Rwanda. Gus,
all this stuff
it can be a hybrid court with Sudanese
and internationals it could be a special court like what happened in Sierra Leone.
But the most important thing is that the trust
in the current system, unfortunately in Sudan
it has been so
polarised that there is no trust in the national system.
And that's really very unfortunate. Sudan deserves better, and it has better.
It deserves much better.
Thank you.
Um, let's go to the very back and then we can go to Reuters first and then in the front.
Please go ahead,
hooker for
TV from Hong Kong
regarding your last, uh, answers.
You know, in the August, um, the United States organised a meeting of humanitarian
with several countries,
but this meeting
doesn't,
uh, real focus on the CFI
or arms embargo.
So what do you feel about the mission and
how do you think the international community could help or could affect
the kind of a ceasefire and protecting civilians? Thank you.
Yes, I think the
the the There are a lot of efforts
in terms of trying
to bring the parties to the negotiating table,
and
in our view, those efforts should continue.
They should be relentless.
Much as
the parties
have hesitancy
in terms of, uh,
uh, having direct to direct negotiation. But there are many ways of negotiating
for peace.
And I think, uh, our report encourages
that one, but also encourages, uh, a
consolidation of the efforts.
Uh, there are many, many efforts by the African Union. There are efforts by
a There are efforts
by the US and Saudi Arabia and so on and so forth. But
I think the the
the and also under the species
of the,
uh, the Secretary General's special envoy
and those efforts, I think, uh,
you know, need consolidation. But I think
any party or any state that has an influence on the parties to the conflict,
I think they must
also
play a role in convincing the parties
to the negotiating table. Because I think there is consensus, really that
the hostilities must end,
that there will be no winner in this
conflict and that the best way is really
for a
for a peaceful settlement, however painful it may be to any of the parties.
Thank you. Ok, now we'll take a question from Emma Farge from, uh, Reuters.
Hi. Good morning. Um,
I was wondering if you could give us a bit more of an
idea of what you had in mind on the expanded arms embargo.
And, um, why the current one
isn't working. Um,
And then, joy, would you,
uh, please elaborate a bit more on the the sexual violence by both sides? I.
I understood that
both sides have committed that.
But you have more evidence, I think, against the RSF. If you could just
elaborate a bit more and and the scale of sexual slavery by the RSF.
And finally just a clarification.
Uh, you mentioned that you had reached out to, um, the Sudanese authorities
to get a response, uh, to get their engagement.
But you didn't say whether uh, you'd reached out to the RSF.
I was wondering if you had tried that.
And, um, what sort of engagement you got from them, if any? Thank you.
Th thank you very much. Um, as as we noted,
the issue of rape and the other forms of sexual violence,
especially against women and Children, are very rampant.
And we had and we met first hand
also victims and survivors,
including service providers that have
tried within the limited resources
and in a difficult in very difficult circumstances
to
survivors.
and we know that we got more evidence.
There is more evidence with regard to acts of rape and sexual violence committed by
R
and then also also some pointing also to
serve.
Then, just like we documented about 400 we gathered even more
from service providers.
But we think and they, of course, from from from the interlocutors
that most of them are not reported. And some also
got pregnant. Because, of course, we know about the stigma,
the fear of even Reprisals of mentioning names. The shame,
the shame that comes with it
also impedes reporting and again even for women that ordinarily,
some reproductive health services should be available in hospitals.
The hospitals are under attack infrastructure,
and they can't assess the healthcare they need.
So for now, in our conclusion, both sides and then
but then in terms of gathering evidence and we still think that we need to deep dig
with regard to
sexual violence committed by staff. But we have
preponderance of evidence with regard to
RSF. Yes,
OK, thank you. Um, let's take a question from the front, please. Go ahead.
Sorry if I if I knew there was just something uh left hanging. Um,
the first one was on the arms embargo.
And then, um sorry on the RSF if they're engaged with the committee. Thank you.
Yeah, on the arms embargo. Uh,
I think you know that the arms embargo covers uh, Darfur.
Uh,
it's been going on for many years.
It's a one year mandate. In fact, the current one ends
on the 12th of September, which is next week.
And, uh,
it has been effective somehow.
But we think that
since the conflict in Darfur is related to,
it cannot be separated from the conflict in other parts of Sudan
that the starving the parties
of arms and ammunition,
including new supplies of ammunition
and arms, will help
in slowing down their appetite
for hostilities.
So, therefore,
if you leave open
the rest of Sudan
and leave only an arms embargo in Darfur,
it is not sufficient because of the,
uh,
uh, the the permeability you know, of
of the movement of forces. And we know
that in this conflict,
the warring parties are moving
from region to region, beginning from Darfur
from Khartoum
and
Durman,
uh, Darfur,
and now extending to 14 out of the 18
states So we think that that also is something that
should be worth considering. Of course, Cooper operation with
the
had approached the,
uh, president of the Human Rights Council
to express their readiness to Cooper with us.
And we at the secretariat level
began
engaging, at least with their,
uh, with their legal officers or legal legal legal officers.
And we remain open, really
to engage
with the parties
in order
to remind them of their obligation. But also,
they have a responsibility, really,
in terms of
in our oral update, we called on the parties, for example,
in April this year
for the parties to issue directives
to their troops
to respect international
human rights and humanitarian humanitarian law.
So I think we will continue to engage with the
parties and to remind them of their obligations under international law
and international human rights law. Thank you.
Ok, thank you. Uh, another question from the front.
Uh,
I
work a freelancer for Middle East
Middle East media outlets.
I have two question. Why did you make your report from inside Sudan?
Why? Why you didn't make it inside of Sudan.
You make it for,
uh, outside of Sudan.
What did you
expect to
see?
OK and you have mentioned that on your report
countries must stop providing
arts to the conflict parties.
Did you talk with these countries because
the Sudanese people have been talking about
UAE
United Arab
Emirates
as a provider of arms to
Yeah, two things. One,
you know that Sudan, uh,
opposes the mandate,
but it is our obligation as an independent, international fight finding mission
to continue to seek the cooperations
of the state concern, which is Sudan.
So we have since our establishment
made
official request,
I think four in all,
uh, to meet with the Sudanese authorities
to visit Sudan.
So Sudan does not cooperating with us.
But
Co-operation or non Cooper
fact finding missions continue
to do their work because they are methodologies
that arrive at sound
evidence based findings and conclusions.
But we will continue, as I said,
to seek the Cooper operation in Sudan with regard to neighbouring states.
We have done the same
and we are happy that Chad
and we had an extended three week mission
by investigation team and ourselves to Chad.
Uh, we were able to to to collect a lot of material a lot of evidence
and so on. We were in Kenya in Nairobi. We were in
in Uganda also, but also we seek, uh there are other neighbouring countries.
I think we are very, very important
Uh South Sudan,
Ethiopia, Egypt,
Central African Republic
that we have approached and we will continue to urge them,
uh to Cooper because access is essential
Also for us, it's very important to
tell a full story
And we know that Sudanese refugees
the 2 million that we say are in all these countries.
So it's important for us really to have access to be able to
as much as possible tell the story of each and every
person
concerning the arms embargo.
Our mandate,
uh,
does not specifically ask us
to investigate
the supply of arms.
There is a UN
Security Council
panel
that deals with that in respect to, uh in
respect to to to Darfur
and our report is evidence based. I think if there was evidence based
on the standards required for our report
by another independent body, we will be able to consider it. So we are open,
uh, to any
information to that effect. We are aware, for example, some countries, like the EU,
has has
taken some measures in terms of sanctioning and so on
and the UN Security Council Sanctions Committee and so forth. So
I
think we are open to do that. But what our focus really is that
the supply of arms in Sudan
and ammunition in Sudan is one of the factors that continues to fuel the conflict,
and therefore that should be addressed.
And in our modest contribution, we think
that arms embargo should cover
the whole of Sudan.
Thank you.
Uh, thank you. Uh, let's take us a couple of questions from online.
I don't know if is Jamie Keaton there?
Uh, if not, let's go to Laurence Sierra, first from the Swiss News Agency.
And we'll come back to Jamie if he gets back.
Yeah. Thank you for
thank you for taking my question. Uh, a bunch of quick question.
First, uh, there is, uh, only a brief mention in the report about the siege.
Uh, siege of El Fasher by RSF.
Uh, how would you qualify that as a as a crime
And then same thing for starvation. I.
I just see a brief mention of starvation, voluntary starvation. How would you
qualify that as a crime as well?
And the third would be, uh,
coming back to the independent force that you would like to
to to be set up. Are you calling today? Concretely, The security.
The UN Security Council,
Uh, to call for a session where they should consider Chapter seven. Thank you.
Thank you very much. With regard to Al
Fasher.
Let me start with this.
With the hunger and famine in Al Fasher, it's not a small thing that the
actually came to. The conclusion that there is
a
panel. This is
there is famine. This is a high threshold
that unfortunately, in the case of Sudan, it has been met.
The Security Council called
on the siege of Al Fasher to end. This hasn't really been respected.
And this is extremely serious that the city
that is hosting thousands and thousands of people perhaps millions,
is under siege in the
in the way it is
from our side. Of course, the starvation is very serious.
Very it needs to be fully documented.
We haven't gone to the issue of whether this famine and starvation as a method,
the starvation
could constitute war, crime and crime against humanity.
If you want, we in our investigation have touched on these issues
and we do say that the siege by itself
is really putting the humanitarian,
the civilian population
at a very, very serious risk.
We need to look more into it in terms of the deliberate policies, in terms of the
prohibition of
the intention, basically to starve the civilian population, we need to look
a lot more into this.
But from what we are seeing right now, it is an extremely worrying situation
and it compounds other
war crimes and crimes against humanity that are being committed right now.
So it's a very, very serious
situation
in terms of the international force. As I said, there are several options.
I don't want us to basically say OK, we call on one entity to do something because
this entity could be
the right format or the wrong format because
we know the political situation in the world today.
I think what is important is the end result. The end result is the
civilian population in Sudan need protection
and this
is not happening today.
There are projections on the famine with very stark numbers by the end of this year,
and this cannot continue.
We cannot continue to have
people dying in front of our eyes, and we do nothing about it.
So that's really so. We are not going to go into this one entity.
There are several institutions that have direct responsibility to
actually stop what is going on in Sudan.
And one of them is definitely the Security Council.
But it's not only the Security Council.
Others have a role as well.
Thank you. Um, let's go to, uh, Jamie Keaton, Uh, from Associated Press online.
Thanks, Todd. Um, and thank you to, uh, to the fact finding mission members.
Um it seems to me that, um,
that the fighting sides have largely ignored all
these calls for a halt to the conflict
and for respect for civilians and and other things.
But maybe the international community will be a little bit more receptive.
Your report makes no reference to which countries should
be held accountable for possible complicity in war crimes
or crimes against humanity.
So could you please tell us which countries you have in mind?
Um, and why do you not specify those countries in the report?
Thank you. So much.
Yes, thank you very much.
As we said,
our report is based
on,
uh,
on the evidence that we have collected
OK, And we have, uh, in terms of, uh,
allocating
individual responsibility,
individuals and entities.
And we have, uh, dossiers also,
that we have open in terms of,
uh
uh in terms of those we think
should be held accountable. Of course, in an investigation like this,
it is still at a lower threshold.
Uh, in terms of really
accusing anybody,
uh,
we are not an accusatory body
or prosecutorial body. We are an investigative body
that has collected evidence,
and our report says clearly that uh uh,
we have, uh
uh uh individual,
eh? And entities responsible, eh?
Have been, eh? Have been eh, eh? Have been identified. And dossiers.
E prepared for that.
Thank you.
Just like the chair
said we are.
We are fact finding independent international fact finding mission
and the evidence that we gather that that forms
help us to form some conclusion and recommendation.
We are very, very eager to see an end to the hostilities.
And you're right in pointing out that various
parties have ignored all the calls for ceasefire
but we must continue to push for accountability In our report and recommendation,
we made it very clear that protection of civilians is paramount and importantly,
that those who are complicit in the supply of arms may also be implicated for
in terms of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Because
once you establish that chain and we are still working and investigating and
we have to collaborate with other agencies, including
ICC, and if we have those kind of evidence, we will also pass it on
to the appropriate quarters. That can take it further
in terms of prosecution.
But it is important to continue
to
that the supply of weapons,
ammunition or other logistical assistance or even
financial assistance to the wearing parties.
Those doing that run a risk of also being held
accountable for violations of human rights and international humanitarian law.
Thank you.
Thank you. OK, we'll take one last question from Jeremy lunch.
Um, we'll have to be quick because we have to wrap this up in about three minutes.
So, uh, please, uh, Jeremy, go ahead.
I'll be super quick. It's just, uh, technical details. Um, I I'd like to make sure.
II, I got this right.
Uh, both sides are accused of, um, having committed war crimes.
But when it comes to crimes against humanity, uh,
the report mentioned is mentioning more the RSF
than the, uh, Sudanese armed forces.
Do you, uh, correct me if I'm
if I'm wrong, But
this is what I read.
And and the same thing for the, uh, recruitment of child soldiers.
Uh, when I read the report, it seems that you you, uh,
again, uh, RSF been accused of of, um, recruiting child soldiers.
But when I hear the spread briefing, I think I, uh I
heard, uh, a bit earlier that
that the Sudanese armed forces have also,
uh, recruited child soldiers. So can you just clarify that for me? Thank you.
No, thank you very much for the question. I just want to, uh, actually,
uh, point you to the
relevant paragraph paragraphs in the report, which is
paragraph.
Sorry, I'm just
here.
I will get it in a second. Basically, what we are saying is that there are war crimes by
both sides, particularly on bombardment and Chile,
indiscriminate attacks against the civilian population as well as torture.
In addition,
there are crimes against humanity, meaning there are intentional policies,
attacks against the civilian population, particularly by
and then we name
quite a few, which I outlined them in my intervention
for particularly
sexual slavery, ethnic based
killings in
genina against the
Mass Sallis and persecution and so on
with regard to the recruitment of Children.
Don't forget, we are talking about the Allied forces. The Allied forces
themselves have engaged, and both sides have engaged
in
recruitment of Children. So there are forces allied to
sa itself. SAF
is mobilising and sometimes is mobilising in schools.
But its allied forces
have been recruiting Children
and have been using Children
in combat.
And that's where the distinction that you find in our report
it is much more systematic and widespread on the base by
but also unfortunately.
And that has to stop because staff made a lot of commitments.
The government of Sudan made commitments,
including when it ratified the optional protocol
on the use of Children in conflict.
It made commitments that it will not
neither even on voluntary basis, we will not even accept volunteers under 18.
Right now the situation is very different,
so that's what we are saying. If you want?
OK, Thank you, everyone. Unfortunately, we have to wrap this up.
If you have any follow up questions, please contact me directly.
We'll we'll, uh, get you in touch with the experts. Uh, thank you very much.
Thank you.