UNCTAD Press conference : Launch of the Least Developed Countries Report 2022

Welcome everybody.

Thank you very much for joining us today at the launch of the of UMTADS LDC Report 2022, the low carbon transition and it's daunting implications for structural transformation.

We are joined by UNGTAD Secretary General, Miss Rebecca Greenspan and by the Director for LDCs in Africa, Mr Paul Akiwumi.

I give the floor first to the Secretary General.

Secretary General, please, the floor is yours.

Thank you.

Thank you, Amalia very much.

Thank you all for being here.

You know that we are in a very difficult moment.

We are bearing the brunt of an unprecedented cascade of crisis, a continuing pandemic, aggravating climate change catastrophe, looming debt meltdown, if especially for the developing countries in a global cost of living crisis.

And for most LD CS, this is translating into marked increased in malnutrition, destitution, falling behind in terms of development.

You know, when you lose in one year of crisis, more than one decade of progress, we are in a very difficult situation.

And it also shows that we have no resilience that maybe what we have called progress was not really.

So yes, that there is there, you know, a, a, a challenge in terms of what we look at how we measure development.

And that's why the secretary general has been so a committed to the GDPGDP plus and the new measurement for development at a global scale.

But in the middle of all these, the developing world in general, and at least I have to say least developed countries.

And we have a message precisely from from the Prime Minister of Bangladesh.

They are feeling acutely abandoned.

As the Deputy Secretary General said in a recent **** level panel that we hold in the board of of Antac, there are no policy responses on the table that come even close to meeting the magnitude of the problem.

The LDC report will launch today seeks to address that issue heads on.

Coming just one week before COP 27 in Sharm Sheikh.

This edition of the report has a specific climate focus, but the spirit of this LDC report, which now has over 30 editions in the series, is, as always, to address global issues from the LDC perspective, a task that is today more important than ever.

The report comes with three main messages, all addressed towards policy makers meeting at the COP next week.

Firstly, LDC's need urgently a green structural transformation to reduce poverty and enhance their resilience to climate risk.

So this is nothing question, we put it upfront.

We need a structural transformation that will lead us to sustainable development because sustainable development is the only development we can think of for the future.

We know that the LD CS are acutely vulnerable to climate disasters and uniquely dependent on commodities with **** CO2 emissions both.

So this is a double negative.

Yes, it is bad for the planet, but it is especially bad for LDC's because it perpetuates underdevelopment through the commodity dependence trap, something that we have stressed in ANTAC all the time.

So a green structural transformation combines economically, socially and environmentally responsible growth with rising productivity.

So a transition from carbon intensive sunset sectors to low carbon sunrise economic activities, promoting the efficient use of resources, materials, energy, land, water along the development path.

We also believe that SS coordination for a green transition could cut global CO2 emissions below 30 billion tonnes by the end of the decade and deliver many benefits.

That's something that we stressed in our Trade and Development report in Chapter 3.

S South regional financial safety net, macroeconomic policy coordination and trade deals could generate 200 million additional jobs by 20-30 and $1.6 trillion annually in additional green investment.

But current policies in advanced economies are making it increasingly difficult for developing economies to invest in a green transition.

And I have mine.

Where is my back?

Thank you.

Sorry.

So as well as strong in, in, in, in this I say because I have said that several times, we had another increase in interest rates yesterday, Yes.

So the possibility of investment going to the South instead of capital flight going to the north is getting more and more difficult for the structural transformation that we need.

So, as well as strong SS corporation, we need strong multilateral cooperation to address the rising cost of debt servicing and commodities and to deliver required green investment.

These reports argues that a green structural transformation is a paramount policy objective for LD CS in the current context of cascading crisis.

And you know, we have said cascading crisis mean cascading inequalities and LD CS are being impacted specially a disproportionately.

But this cascading crisis, because as we have been learning the hard way since COVID, when we lost at times over as I said before, 10 years of progress in human development metrics in the span of six months, there is simply no development possible for the future.

That is not sustainable development.

But to achieve this green structural transformation and this is need fair treatment, fair treatment, collective action, an immense support.

This bring me to 2nd message of this report.

L disease are the least most test against which history will judge how fairly we addressed the common but differentiated responsibilities principle enshrine in the fight against climate change.

L disease pay, as I said before, a disproportionately **** and unfair price in terms of economic, social and ecological consequences from climate change.

The world 46 LD CS, home to about 1.1 billion people, have contributed minimally to CO2 emissions.

In 2019, LDC's accounted for less than 4% of total world greenhouse gas emissions.

Yet over the last 50 years, and this is, you know, a very important, you know, a value of the report also over the last 50 years, 69 percent, 69% of worldwide deaths caused by climate related disasters occurred in all disease.

This injustice is not being fully addressed by the multilateral system.

This is especially the case when it comes to climate finance for adaptation and mitigation.

LD CS account for 22% of countries with the most recurring appeal to emergency funds in reaction to extreme weather crisis.

These risks are aggravated by the failure of developed countries to meet the annual 100 billion goal in climate finance they originally promised to achieve by 2020 to support developing nations to adapt to the climate crisis.

Climate adaptation has received far less international support than mitigation, not only in terms of financing, but also in terms of technology development and transfer, capacity development and technical assistance.

Today we see international investment projects addressing the climate crisis falling in the wake of cascading global crisis.

So we see that investment in projects, as our investment report said, falling precisely when we need them most in the end.

And there was like many years of momentum for a international investment project for climate change.

And that momentum has fade as soon as COVID started and as soon as we have had this cost of living crisis.

So recent research by Amtat suggests that climate investments have fallen by over 10% in just the last two quarters alone.

At Amtat, we urge development partners to extend special and differentiated treatment to LDCs by providing targeted, sufficiently flexible and long term finance beyond the commitment to provide ODA corresponding to 0.15 to 0.20% of donors gross national income for elder disease.

Addressing this disproportionality also means ensuring LDCs legitimate claim of priority use of the remaining carbon budget of the Earth.

LDCs should not be required to do it first or at the same time as other countries.

Rather, they should be allowed longer transition periods to make use of these resources in pursuit of their development right, which is enshrined in the UNF CCC.

Our third and final message is that climate related policies and regulations must explicitly consider LD CS to avoid producing unintended harm.

4/5 of LD CS are classified as commodity dependent, meaning more than 60% of their merchandise exports consist of primary products.

Many of these community commodities, as I said before, until **** CO2 emissions.

That has to change, but the right conditions for that change have to be provided.

Also, these commodities are often inputs to carbon intensive global value chains including metal, cement, fertilisers, electricity.

In all, more than 2/3 of LDC's have economies that depend directly on the export of **** carbon emitting commodities.

Our report therefore warns that if LDC's lack the financial resources and the technological avenues for this transition for decarbonisation, the challenges that they face will not be overcome.

This is not only true in terms of their economic structures, but also in terms of their capacity to comply with trading partner policies, including carbon pricing and other forms of climate related regulation.

LDCs often lack the institutional capacity to deal with the implications of these regulations, which have rising 15 fold in the last 10 years.

So this spaghetti bowl of climate regulation is really impossible to follow for most of the LDCs.

Because of this, our report also warns against the risk that LDCs become carbon, have havens.

We don't want that that do The Dirty production that other more advanced economies stamp out of their countries.

We need to avoid the spat of shoring.

Pollution is not eliminating pollution and we are very aware of this.

So, dear friends, we are three days away from the start of the Cop in Charm Al Sheikh.

This is a key moment and the messaging coming out of the Secretary General are very strong and very clear with respect to the path that the world has to take to avoid a catastrophe.

And we are seeing this poll very much today with the food crisis, drought and climate change has been a very important factor of the supply constraints that we are facing and a lot of it in sub-Saharan Africa and in LDCs.

So I really hope that this report helps policy makers make LDCs central to the discussions starting next week.

A focus on LDCs and their needs in their development path for the future to be able to make a green structural change is key in the discussions that we will hear next week.

I really look forward for your comments and questions and I thank you for your attention.

Thank you very much, Secretary General.

I now give the floor to Mr Paul Akiwomi, Director, Division for Africa, Least Developed Countries and Special programmes of OTAT.

Thank you.

Thank.

Thank you very much and thank you very much.

Secretary General, I, I don't think I have too much to add, but I'd like to, to emphasise a few points that the Secretary General made about this report.

I think it's important that we, we believe that this report is will make a powerful case and does make a powerful case that there is a need for focus on green structural transformation during these debates that are happening on climate.

Specifically with regard to LDC's, as the Secretary General mentioned, these developed countries are commodity dependent and there is a risk that they will be further entrenched into that commodity dependence trying to deal with all these regulatory processes.

The Secretary General mentioned that the platitude of regular processes since 2009 to 2020, 2009, there are roughly 300 regular environmental regular processes.

Now there are over 3500 that the LDC's have to follow.

But it's important also to note that because of countries being LDC's being able to transform their economies, they must diversify their economies to be able to export.

So it is often the case that these environmental regulatory process come through trade policies and that's why it's critical that LDCs are considered and that the impact of these trade policies to curb CO2 emissions are considered in light of what LDCs have to go through.

The second point I'd like to make is also the fact about that there is there, there is a need for everybody to realise that, that countries will transition at different speeds, especially at least developed countries.

And in that light, as a Secretary General mentioned, it is important that there is international support, not just a fund and not just dealing with projects, but there is a support to assist governments, LDC governments to walk hand in hand with them over long periods, sustained time.

Because it is quite clear that there is no guarantee that FDI will continue in these carbon intensive.

Activities, industries that are going on right now in LDCs till the end of their economic life and and there is also no guarantee that there will be reinvestment in alternative areas of the economies of LDCs.

So it's very important that LDCs have the capacity to transform their economies, to move towards structural transformation, but also more importantly to more towards green structural transformation that the activities of their economies by emitting low carbon outputs.

Lastly, I would just like to say that one of the key elements which the second general mentioned at the end is the institutional capacities of the countries to deal with all these regulatory frameworks where you often talk about adaptation, mitigation, funding.

For that.

Nobody focuses on the ability of the country to be able to manage all these rules and regulations, first to understand them, then to also practise them, but also to also keep track of all this and tab the database systems and everything is there because they will have to monitor the inputs of sources into products they're producing to be able to export them.

Secondly, it's not just about the government institution, it's about the private sector, the private sector that drives economies.

They don't have the capacity either to be able to work out all these new regulatory frameworks and also to be able to implement them.

So it's very important that part of the international community support is also focused very much on that, how they can help them for sustained period of time so that they are conversant with all the rules, regulations that they need to comply to.

On that note, second general, I think I'll stop there.

Thank you very much.

We now open the floor.

While we do so, I would remind everybody pleased that the report is under embargo until 6:00 PM Geneva today.

And we would appreciate that while framing your questions, you identify yourself and the media that you work for.

Thank you.

We open the floor now.

Thank you.

Sorry, let me just take this off.

My name is Chris Vogt.

I work for Agence France Press here.

It seems to be the worst of times for everything.

You're asking to help LCDS because the countries that actually have the money that could.

Help seem to be in.

Quite big trouble themselves, notwithstanding the war in Ukraine.

And the.

Effects and all that.

So shaming hasn't worked for COVID?

Because they're rich countries were.

Shamed not giving vaccines to the poor countries.

It didn't really help.

They still don't have enough vaccines.

So how how do you see in a practical way the strategy to try to advance your goals?

Yes, thanks.

Really, it's a very good question and it's a difficult 1, you know that.

But let me let me say that I'm not so completely pessimistic.

I think that the you know, what we are facing as as the report says is daunting challenges, yes.

But we we have been seeing, you know, some wake up in terms of several policy instruments.

For example, we are talking right now about windfall profit taxation.

Yes, that is actually huge source of resources that we can put to work into the transition.

Yes, if we want to.

It's an instrument that everybody is talking about right now.

When the Secretary General started to talk about this, there was a big, you know, revolution and wake up, but suddenly it is coming into the mainstream discussion.

Yes.

And I think that there is a huge possibility there.

I we all saw a lot just this week the reports about the profits of companies in the energy sector that are we have never seen before.

Yes.

So there is a case, there is a moral case, there is an ethical case, but there is also an economic case for taxing windfall profits.

Yes.

The other thing is and, and I think that here you, you can help us a lot is let's not forget about the LDCs.

You suddenly we are talking about the, you know, the average targets and and and development.

But averages, when we have an unequal world, do hide more than they reveal.

So let's talk about the differentiated situation in which different groups of countries are.

Let's not talk in averages, averages, averages, height inequalities.

So let's talk about the inequalities because if not, we won't be able to achieve our own goals.

So there is a very important message here that I want to say in, in, in stress, As Paul said, we want the transition to happen.

We think that this is one of the most important collective responsibilities that we have.

So it's not that we want to hold the disease from making the transition is is good for them to do the transition, but we need the appropriate conditions to make that happen.

So I think that the what I heard for example, with respect to the $100 billion in in a climate support promise in Paris that the developed world are really complying with that this year.

I hope that happens.

We are not there yet, but we have been hearing precisely now this last days going to COP 27 that there is a more serious attempt to comply with the commitments that they have done.

I hope they they also, you know, comply with the commitments with the LDC.

Yes, that is their commitment.

And I don't believe in the shaming part part, but I believe in the call for the common responsibilities.

Yes, I believe in the collective responsibility to make a change.

And the other part that I think that is, although I said that investment is not happening in the developing world, in the green investments and the field investments that we need.

And that's true.

And we have a very clearly report on this.

When you hear about the savings in carbon emissions that have happened in the private sector with those that have committed to make it happen is we are talking about megatons of CO2, you know that it's it's not a marginal change.

The problem is that it's not enough, yes.

So it's a trend that we need to deepen that we need to to take forward and, and, and, and really, you know, put the right incentives in the market for this continue to happen.

So for example, ESG that has come under a lot of of fire, let's put it that way.

It's a, it's a good, it's a good way to go in the sense that the, what is behind it is the correct positive, you know, a trend.

The problem is that there is a lot of greenwashing, yes.

So let's try not to get away from the ESG concept because we need the private sector to embrace it.

But let's make sure that it happens with standards, with convergence in the indicators.

And for example, ANTAC has committed to put together an observatory, an observatory to avoid greenwashing.

So let's do the right thing.

Let's not get away from ESG, and then nothing will happen in the private sector.

Let's make the commitment real for the transformation that we need.

And my last point is the government that have to put the right policy frameworks for all this to happen.

Yes, we have put a lot of emphasis in the international community because really for the LDC's is key, right.

But the truth is that governments have a responsibility also to take the right policy options and we are here to support them in doing that.

We have seen the right policy options in many countries in the world.

So let's try to push for that to create the capacities that are needed and take the opportunities that this transformation also poses for, for the for the developing world.

There are two further questions from the floor.

Emma Fudge from Reuters, I think I give the floor for that question.

Good morning.

2 questions, if I may.

The first one about what she said, Miss Greenspan, about the carbon havens.

How big a risk is this?

And do you have a view on this very thorny debate of whether LDC's should be exploiting new reserves of oil and gas?

I'm thinking about countries that are in the starting blocks there.

And secondly, I hope you'll forgive me.

For asking a question.

About the Black Sea deal, because it's very relevant right now, how likely do you think it is that Russia will agree to let the black.

Sea deal continue after.

November 19th following the events of this week and any comment on the grounds for your optimism, for example.

Are are the.

Fertiliser is the fertiliser aspect of the deal going ahead.

Thanks very much about the carbon heavens and I will answer the question about the Black Sea.

Well, there, there was also one about the new or the gas reserves or reserves.

Well, one of the things in in the report and when previous reports as well is very much about the stranded assets that many least developed countries have and the possibility of exploiting those stranded assets.

And it's, it's quite clear that from the LDC perspective, they need to be able to exploit those stranded assets because many of them are already extrapolating into the future about the economic development, including those assets into the equation.

The fact is though, is that though, as we start moving towards a, a, a reduction in, in carbon in, in the global economy, the stranded assets are going to lose value.

And they also provide, as the secretary general said they are, they provide inputs into other parts of the world, for example, coal into other parts of the world for energy.

So they're going to use lose value over a period of time.

So countries will continue, LDCs will continue to, to deal with that.

With regard to the carbon haven, it's, it's quite clear that LDCs have polluted the least amount in, in, in the global world today as we know it now.

And they are going to be, there are possibilities arising where there is possibilities are, and already it's happened with, with offsetting your, your carbon basically is that LDCs will become a haven for, for, for, for that.

And it's important that they, they are able to transform their economies in the same way as others are.

And they're supported in doing that so that they don't have to become the, the, the carbon haven.

I think that's an issue that also has to be discussed and considered very much in the negotiations with, in the climate debate.

But it's very much linked to economic development, very much linked to transformation of the countries as a whole.

Thank you.

I I.

Yes.

You know, looking at this from an an economic perfect world, if if you want to avoid these countries to become carbon, carbon havens, on the one hand you have to put regulations yes, and allow for technology transfer for a different type of production, yes.

But in a way what is happening is that you have regulations in the in the developed countries, you know, to avoid that these exports, you know, get or dirty exports to the say get to the developed world.

So they don't take advantage of the non regulation in the developing countries or in the LDCs.

But the problem, you know, with that way of thinking is that according to good economic, you know, advice, you have to tax the externality in the place that it happens, not where the exports go.

Because if not, you are in a vicious cycle.

Yes, those that have that need to transform their production, they don't get the resources to be able to do that.

And where these, you know, bad production technologies take place, they affect the country themselves.

So you are not acting where the problem is and that is a problem of this international setting.

Yes, we need global regulations that will transfer resources for the transformation to the developing countries.

That's why we say these regulations without a multilateral framework that happens and proliferate in many countries of the world will only affect these countries that will have to sell at even lower prices, prices lower costs, without the technology transformation and without the investment that they need.

So it is a visual cycle and we need to break that visual cycle somewhere.

Yes, with sound economic policy and sound transfer of technology and resources.

So I understand and we say in the report that we have to avoid these countries becoming carbon havens.

We don't want that.

It's not good for them.

But let's do the right thing for avoiding that path That will be bad for the world and for the Lt CS as we say with respect to stranded assets.

The the question here, because one thing is to exploit what you already have been exploiting and the other is do new projects take place?

Yes.

And here, here there is a a, a, a, a quandrum.

You know, I think that the real discussion is about gas, but if you think that you can that you will start a new exploration, for example, that will take place, it will take a maturity in 5-6 years time, the world will be a different world then.

And so you will have double stranded assets because you will have your investment that already will be a stranded asset in six years.

So here I think that the real discussion is what to do with what is, you know, happening already it what to do with with with the gas transition and that discussion and and avoid making the problem worse.

Even from the point of view of this branded assets, they have to be a very realistic discussion with respect to how fast I think despite this crisis today and and many regrets that we are doing it, that we are seeing, yes, there will be a path for more sustainable energy and more renewable energy.

And so I hope that the investments will be smart investments in, in, in the developed world in, in the, in in the LDC.

Let me go now to to the, to the, to your questions on on on the Black Sea grain initiative.

You have asked me in what I base my optimist, my optimism.

I did I understand well did I understand you well?

I, I, yes, whether you, you think that it will be renewed after the events of the last few days and any update on the fertiliser aspect, which Russia has said is really important and, and they're still blocked.

In European port.

Yeah, yes, both important questions what the, what the UN has said here and you have heard the the head of of OCHA, Martin Griffith saying it and and the Secretary General, we will spare no effort in trying to renew and expand the Black Sea Grain Initiative.

And one important point that I saw in the discussion, for example, in the Security Council, but also in our different interactions, is that there is wide support through the develop and developing countries for the Black Sea Grain Initiative.

And that gives me, you know, the, the, the hope that the parties will be responsible and will extend and expand the, the Black Sea Grain Initiative.

But at the same time, we have said that the in Istanbul we sign 2 agreements.

Yes, we sign the Black Sea Grain Initiative and we sign the Memorandum of understanding between the Russian Federation and the UN to facilitate the unimpeded exports of food and fertilisers from the Russian Federation to global markets.

And we are working very hard in making that facilitation 1/2 concrete results.

We have made important steps forward, but there is still a, a, a, a road to, to be travelled, especially in you are right with respect to the fertiliser crunch that we are seeing in the world.

You know, it's not only that these exports from the Russian Federation continue to face secondary effects and and obstacles from because of payment, payment restrictions, because of transport and shipping, because of **** insurance premiums all coming from the children effect on the private sector.

Yes, and the reputational risk and interpretation risk to to the sanctions that give exemption to the fertilisers and to the food exports.

But anyway, the private sector, the interpretation can really put important, the secondary effect of the sanctions can put important obstacles still in the market.

And we have been clarifying together and engaging with EU, with the EU, with the US, with the UK to solve these problems.

And I think that we are making progress.

Not all the progress that I would want to see right now is a difficult issue, is a complex, you know, ecosystem, but, but I think that we, we will try to have important advances in that direction, you know, before the, I hope the deadline for the rollover and extension of of the Black Sea Grain Initiative.

Let me say that the fertiliser crunch that we are seeing is, is, is also a product of the **** energy prices.

Yes, energy is a very important input of fertiliser production.

And they, for example, let me say that the 70%, even 70 percent of the fertiliser production in Europe has shut down because it's not economically viable at the present prices of gas.

Now the that the prices of gas were going down.

So we also hope that that will resume.

And then we, you know, the supply of fertilisers will also widen, including some of the plants in the, in the European, in the European sphere that they can resume production.

But as, as you can see, this is a complex issue because it has several parts to it.

But they, we, we, we think that they in our interactions with the different partners that we will able to ease the pain in this respect.

And one of these indicators of progress will be if we will be able to ship with the help of WFP, some of the fertilisers that were stranded in some of the European ports and be able to take them to the countries that they mostly needed before the sowing.

The sowing season is over.

That is our main priority right now.

A fertiliser are have to the the prices of fertilisers and the access to fertilisers to small farmers.

It has to be solved.

If not, we will have a very, very difficult challenge in 2023 where the crisis of food affordability will become a crisis of food availability even in staples that right now have not been affected by the war in Ukraine like rice.

And, and that's something that the whole world and and all of us collect, you know, collectively have to solve to avoid that scenario.

Thank you, Secretary General.

There is a further question from Machen Fiafe.

Good morning and thank you for taking my question.

You are calling for a green transition in less developed countries, but are there already some examples of this group of countries that are already doing this?

And if so, how are they shifting their production, their exports?

What are they doing to to improve in this, in this matter?

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you very much for the question there from from the least developed country group of countries that we we deal with there.

There are the, there is the governments are beginning to look into that areas and they're beginning to start establishing policies for that areas.

There are some countries which are doing it in very sectoral areas.

They're not focusing on the whole economy, but it's just in various sectors.

We are also unctard is very much engaged in supporting countries looking at green diversification of their economies.

We we look at number of countries to help them with diversifying the economies in more green and sustainable manner.

So countries are beginning to take this notion on, but it is not caught on as the whole development plan is underpinned by green structural transformation.

And that's the important thing that the whole development plan must be, must be underpinned by that.

But you have certain products that people are exporting.

People are exporting honey, for example, which is very green.

The way they've established the, the, the, the, the, the value chains and the way they've, they've done it.

So it it in various sectors they're doing it, but it's not comprehensive and it's not underpinned.

And the majority of of the exports are still commodity based minerals and that's **** carbon intensive.

Yes.

So I mentioned that well, Angola is one of the countries which we are actively engaged in and trying to help them diversify the economies and in the sense of it in green diversification.

So we spent a lot of effort and time in that country and we've been there for the last 4-5 years and we'll continue to be there for another five years in helping the whole country move forward because a more holistic approach to structural transformation is more important than project based approach.

So we've been working actively on that to help them with that.

So I think that's that's a good example and we have information on our website of the whole Angola programme and you can have a look at that and see how we have managed to move the needle with regard to green structural transformation.

OK.

Let let me just add to that because I think that is so important what, what Paul just said, you know, it's so important to have a holistic approach and, and this was possible because we put together, you know, all the different instruments that the house has.

And so the precise division of of African LDC's, you know, put ANTA together.

So we did, you know, digital transformation, we did customs, we did investment, we did the the trade with the the productive capacity index.

So, so we can understand the gaps that the country has.

And this is not a consultancy, you know, model.

This is a model where we stay in the country for 4-5 years.

You know, in these four years at least once a week somebody from Ankit has been in Angola.

And so this is consistency, coherence and perseverance.

And it needs the goodwill of the government to put the government together to, you know, to coordinate also the different parts of the government to make to be able to do that, to bring the private sector on board, to talk to civil society and understand what are the challenges.

But also this was possible because the European Commission put, you know, allow us to put together together a project with the resources to have this holistic approach.

And then if we are successful in doing that, then you can have a project by project approach because you will de risk the country, you will put the the incentives and the conditions for the project by project private sector type of interventions to be possible.

And the other probably call that we have to make is that here the multilateral development banks have a huge responsibility and a very important role to play.

And in a way we have been calling for the multilateral development banks to take more risk, to take upfront risk for these countries to allow the transformation to take place because they need the resources, the long term resources for to put in the basis of the transformation.

And let's remember always that public investment and private investment are complementary.

There are not competing investments, they are complementary.

So the multilateral development banks have a very important role to play here.

Thank you very much.

I think we have no further questions.

There is one further question I'm being told FFA wants to ask again.

FFA please.

Thank you.

So I have a question that is not related with climate change, but it's about the composition of the LTC group.

I understand it can change.

So with the time and now there is 46 countries.

Do you see some of these countries developing enough to to go to the to the next level to the developing country group and in in the other also in the other direction?

Do you think that some developing countries can fall in this, in this group?

Thank you.

You, you, you, you continue.

I think that you know, Antonio, this is a very important question because we have a discussion with the committee, with the development committee, you know, setting the indicators for the graduation of the LDC's.

And what has happened in the last years is that the the indicators, the three, the three areas was how would you say groups of indicators in the world to the three groups of indicators that give us the composite for, for the LDCs.

It was decided that the if the LDC, if one of the LDCs will advance very much in one group, it doesn't had to advance so much in the others to to graduate.

And we are questioning that precisely because of your of your question.

Yes, we, we are saying that we have to revise that and, and and discuss this again because many countries have they have graduated only because of one set of indicators and mostly about the GDP growth indicator, but they continue to be very vulnerable, yes, to fall back into the LDC category.

So we think that to be robust and resilient in the possibility of graduating.

And you know that Antat and precisely the division of the LDCs in Antat Paul's team do the vulnerability assessment for the country.

So we can invest in strengthening the gaps that still persist for them not to fall back into, into the LDC category.

But I think that more of that has to be done and more of that has to be discussed.

So in a way it is good that countries are graduating from the LDCs, but let's make sure that the development path is resilient, robust in that they they, they don't fall back into social or economic distress or environmental distress because we didn't take into account the vulnerabilities they were challenged with.

Paul.

Yes, thanks.

Thanks, Secretary General.

Just to to add on to the the three indicators, the important thing was that when it was first initiated, they had the three indicators, human asset index, economic and environmental index and also the GNI.

And as time progressed, they removed indicators.

You had to at least deal with those three.

Now you just have to pass one indicator.

So it is making of course countries easier to graduate, but the problem is do they have that resilience?

Do they have that productive capacity to be able to move forward and graduate with momentum?

We have now in, in the pipeline there are five countries which are due to to they have they have reached the criteria once and there and then the pipeline to graduate in the next 5 to 10 years and other countries are coming in.

The problem is, is that as the Secretary General mentioned, is that countries now some countries are feeling reluctant to graduate because they're concerned about the preferences, access to markets, the preferences that they'll lose when they are no longer at least developed countries.

So some are being reluctant to, to graduate and don't want to graduate.

There are also others which are very, do very well on the GNI.

So the countries who have oil exports, but, but they are also have a problem with the human asset index and environmental and economic index.

So there's a combination of things.

But as the secretary general mentioned, it's important that this, this subject is revisited as to look at to the indicators.

But also most importantly is, is the ability of the system and the development system to support these countries not just to graduate, but to move beyond graduation and to, to actually transform their economies.

So that's a long, long term process that we, we, we have to consider.

It is, what is important by your question is, is that you know in the next 10 years LDCs will become an African issue and that's another bit of concern that we should all have because all the Asian LDCs would have graduated by then and it will become majority and African issue with perhaps Haiti in there.

So these are some concerns that we need to consider how we move forward and how we assist countries in in moving forward with that development strategies.

Thank you.

I see a repeat question from from Reuters.

Again, we give the floor thanks and thank you both for such an engaging discussion.

Just a small clarification, are all of the comments here embargoed or only the ones that have direct pertinence to the report?

Thanks.

I think the whole press conference is embargoed until 6:00 PM.

Thank you.