UN Geneva - Multimedia Newsroom : OHCHR - Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination Press conference 28 April 2023

Good afternoon, everyone.

Welcome to the press conference hosted by the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination.

Today, the committee is going to present 6 concluding observation since we have a very packed programme today.

So without further delay, I will pass the floor to Miss Shepherd for her to start the press conference.

Madam Chair, please, Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, everyone.

It's my pleasure to be here once again to talk about how our session or 109th session went.

And with me on my left is Mr Merdad Payande, on my right, Mr Bakari Diaby, and they will be informing everyone on the six reviews that took place.

We reviewed Argentina, Niger, the Philippines, Portugal, Russian Federation and Tajikistan.

So we also were blessed with the presence of NGOs, NHR is, and we had a very fruitful interaction with States and with NGOs as well as NHR IS.

I want to also say that in addition to our interactive dialogue with states, we also adopted draught one of the early warning.

Well, actually, general recommendation #37 first of all, we were very happy with that because general recommendation #37 is on racial discrimination and the right to health.

We are continuing with this because COVID-19 showed us the marginalisation of certain groups which fall under the Convention, under the concern of the Convention in terms of access to health, and so we decided to do that.

We also have a very important procedure, early warning and urgent action, and we adopted several letters to states in terms of that procedure that we have.

So I want to say that we're very happy to be here and open to the questions from the media.

Let me pass the floor now to Mr Paiande to give an overview of the countries that he dealt with, and then perhaps that will give the press an idea of what we did and influence the questions that you may have.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you very much for the opportunity to present the findings or some highlights of the findings that we undertook with regard to the six states that were under review this session.

I will introduce some of the findings on the Russian Federation, Portugal and Tajikistan, and then my colleague Mr Diaby will present the findings on Argentina, Nigeria and the Philippines.

With regard to the Russian Federation, the Committee was deeply concerned about the grave human rights violations committed during the ongoing armed conflict by the Russian Federation's military forces and private military companies against those protected under the Convention.

It was also severely disturbed by reports of incidents, by reports of incitement to racial hatred and propagandation of racist stereotypes against ethnic Ukrainians, and by the alleged forced mobilisation and conscription which disproportionately affect ethnic minorities, including indigenous peoples.

The Committee urged the Russian Federation to immediately end the forced mobilisation and conscription both within the Federation and on other territories under its effective control, as far as it disproportionately effects persons and groups protected under the Convention to provide compensation and rehabilitation to victims and guarantees of non repetition.

The Committee called on the State party to investigate allegations of human rights violations committed during the ongoing armed conflict with Ukraine and other armed conflicts in which the State party is or has been involved.

It also asked the State party to monitor and combat racist hate speech, racial hatred and discrimination.

The Committee was also concerned by reports of increasing restrictions of civic space regarding the overly broad and vague definition of extremist activity included in the legislative framework on countering extremism.

The Committee was deeply concerned that such an unclear definition endangers the legitimate exercise of the right to freedom of expression and of the right to freedom of association, and is applied in a manner in order to target operations and activities of civil society organisations, of journalists and human rights defenders.

The Committee called upon the Russian Federation to review the law on combating extremist activities, as well as relevant provisions of the Criminal Code, in order to establish a precise definition of extremist activity in line and in accordance with international human rights standards, and to ensure that the legislative framework on countering extremism is not used to intimidate, arrest or prosecute journalists, human rights defenders or civil society members, including those working on the rights of ethnic minorities, the Roma, indigenous peoples and non citizens.

With regard to Portugal, the Committee highlighted a number of positive developments in the form of legislative and policy measures addressing different aspects of racial discrimination.

The Committee, however, also identified a number of areas of concern and I would like to highlight a few particular important aspects.

The Committee was concerned about reports indicating that Africans and people of African descent are victims of multiple and intersectional forms of discrimination and racism, particularly in areas such as political participation, access to employment, housing, health, education, Social Security and at the workplace.

The Committee called upon Portugal to develop and implement special measures and policies to continue improving the living conditions, the level of political participation and representation, as well as the socio economic situation of Africans and people of African descent.

The Committee was furthermore concerned that the lingering legacies of colonialism, of the transatlantic slave trade and of slavery continue to fuel racism and tolerance, racial stereotypes and discrimination in Portugal, undermining the full enjoyment of all human rights and fundamental freedoms of ethnic or racial minority groups, in particular of Africans and people of African descent.

The Committee recommended that Portugal acknowledge more explicitly past wrongs and raise awareness for its history and colonial past and its connections to present day manifestations of systems of systematic racism.

The Committee furthermore called on the State party to consider apologising for its role in the transatlantic slave trade and slavery practises in its former colonies and to consider adopting specific legislation to address the lasting consequences of those practises, as well as to provide reparations for grave and massive atrocities.

Thirdly, in the State dialogue with the Republic of Tajikistan, the Committee identified a number of serious concerns, in particular with regard to non citizens, refugees and asylum seekers, as well as with regard to the situation of minorities in general.

Concerning the Pamiri, the Committee expressed its regret that the State Party does not recognise the Pamiri as a distinct group of people living on the territory of Tajikistan, which are subject to marginalisation and discrimination and which therefore warrant specific attention by the State Party.

In this context, the Committee also raised alarm over the tensions in the Gono Badakhshan Autonomous Region, in particular against the background of reports of the use of lethal and excessive force against protesters in the region, followed by prolonged Internet shutdowns and subsequent violent attacks, arbitrary detentions, threats and harassment of members of the Pamiri minority.

It urged Tajikistan to conduct immediate, impartial and transparent investigations surrounding the events in the Gono Barakshan Autonomous Region since November 2021 in accordance with applicable international standards, to engage in a constructive and open dialogue with the PAMIRI, and to implement conflict prevention measures.

The Committee furthermore expressed serious concerns about reports that human rights defenders, members of civil society and journalists belonging to ethnic minorities, as well as those advocating for their rights are being subjected to restrictive and repressive measures such as harassment, intimidation, arbitrary detentions, closed, unfair trials and imprisonment.

In this context, the Committee also expressed its concern that legislation meant to combat terrorist activities is used as an expressed as a repressive instrument.

The Committee therefore called upon the State party to carry out effective, thorough and impartial investigations into all reported cases of arbitrary detention, intimidation and harassment, as well as of threats and reprisals in this context.

And the Committee recommended that the State party ensure accountability for perpetrators as well as provide remedies to the victims.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Mr Pandey.

I now give the floor to Mr Bakari Diaby and he will mention the key highlights of our interactive dialogue with the other State parties.

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Thank you.

So I'll turn back to you.

Yes, I think we can have time for Q&A now.

Maybe we can start with the room first.

Yes, Gabriel from Reuters.

Hello, from Reuters.

Gabriel to Toe Fibre.

I had a question for for the whole panel, but also more specifically Mr Payande, about the Russian Federation.

In the report, it says that the Russian Federation refused to provide the committee with information on the armed conflict in Ukraine.

I was just wondering what logic behind that decision was provided to the committee and whether that complicated the committee's work.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for the question.

In our report, we address two different aspects.

We address the armed conflict in general and we address the situation in Crimea.

And with regard to the armed conflict, of course, we highlight that we are not a general international law body, but we are specifically focused on racial discrimination as a form of human rights violation.

And they're in line with our well established practise and the well established practise of other committees, but also international courts.

We highlight that human rights apply and we, we, we, we scrutinise the compatibility of the information that was in front of us with the Convention and the same we do with regard to Crimea.

Now the Russian Federation raised the point specifically, but not limited to Crimea, that we were barred or that it was, would be inappropriate to discuss these issues since there's a case pending in front of the International Court of Justice.

And of course, the committee addressed this issue and raised it in the state dialogue.

And we laid out our position that we didn't find that anything in the ongoing procedures in front of the International Court of Justice would warrant would would hinder us from assessing the situation.

Since the International Court of Justice actually addressed its own competence.

And it's the competence of the International Court of Justice in the case that is pending is based based primarily on a provision of our committee put on of our convention.

But the International Court of Justice only had to address its competence.

It didn't pronounce itself on the competence of the committee.

So we didn't see any reason why would be we would be prevented from addressing the situation.

And the Russian Federation also raised the point that there is a general principle that a situation, put it this way, that is under scrutiny in one international body should only be subject to the scrutiny of that body.

And we also rejected that argument because in our understanding, this argument is only, or this principle only applies to individual communications, so to complaints by individuals in front of the treaty bodies.

And here it is well established practise not only of our committee, but of all treaty bodies.

But we didn't see a reason that we would be barred from discussing the situation in the state dialogue because it's not a judicial proceeding.

It goes beyond and there was no reason.

And to answer your second question, yes, of course, the, the refusal of the Russian Federation to address these issues didn't hinder us from addressing them in our concluding observations.

But of course, it made our work more difficult and we would have liked to engage in a constructive dialogue.

That is the, the, the purpose of this exercise with the Russian Federation, to raise our concerns, to hear their observations and then to to come to our conclusions.

Thank you.

Any more question from the room?

OK, so last week take some question from Zoom.

Then first we have Yuri from our IA.

Could you please ask your question in English?

Yeah, yeah, no problem in English.

I will ask.

Thank you for the opportunity and thank you for the briefing.

In your document you are saying that there is some racial discriminations against ethnic Ukrainians.

What are you talking about concretely?

Because Ukrainians are ethnically Slavic, just like the Russians, and they share the same religion and they found the same language, it is physically pretty much impossible to make a distinction between a Russian guy and Ukrainian guy.

So what are you talking about in case of racial discrimination?

Thank you.

Thank you very much for that question.

Well, the concept of racial discrimination or the groups protected our under the under the convention.

This concept in article 1, paragraph one of the convention is very broad.

It speaks of ethnic groups of ethnic origin and the committee applies a rather broad understanding of this concept and it doesn't limit itself to as you said the appearance or objective factors.

It rather as it has held in its, in its practise, it rather looks at self identification of groups.

And in this regard, the Committee came to the conclusion, which is shared by other committees and also by the International Court of Justice, that there is a group of ethnic Ukrainians and that actions by the Russian Federation that target or impact in a specific manner ethnic Ukrainians, in particular in Ukraine, fall within the purview, fall within the scope of our convention and in the scope of the provision of racial discrimination.

And then we can go to Issa from Yafi.

Yes.

Good afternoon.

This is Isabel Sacco for Spanish News Agency.

My question is on the to know if you have received information on deportation of Ukrainian children to Russia because this act is already is also because as you mentioned they are ethnically Ukrainians, don't they have been brought to Russia and we have heard a lot of allegations on different abuses that they are they are suffering.

And in any case, if you what are the information that you have received on this situation?

Thank you.

Yes, thank you very much.

In fact, we have received information on deportation of children from territories occupied or if under the effective control of the Russian Federation, to the territory of the Russian Federation, including children.

They have been reports by civil society organisations, They have been has been publicly available information and other information made available to the committee from within the United Nations system as such.

And we've addressed these concerns.

Again, the Russian Federation didn't didn't comment on those concerns or didn't provide any more information.

So we raised the concerns in our concluding observations and asked recommended to the state party to investigate and to end these practises insofar as they are in violation of the Convention.

Thank you.

And then the next question is Aetna from AFP.

Yes, Sir.

Good afternoon.

Thank you for taking my question.

It's a very, very small question and more on the logistic.

So you you say that Russia delegation was present and given that the Russia delegation was not there to other meetings committees with the UNI, wanted to know if this delegation was a delegation coming from Russia or it was a delegation of representative from Geneva?

Thank you.

Thank you for the question.

Well, the delegation was mixed.

There were representatives coming from Geneva and there were also representatives coming from the Russian Federation itself to us as is usual practise with within the state dialogue.

Yes.

And then the next question will be Nick from New York Times.

Yeah, thank you for for taking this.

Again, it's on on Russia.

And again, it's on the question largely of children, which was the delegation, as I remember, did put forward some numbers about the number of children that had been deported.

I think they used a figure of 700,000 at one point.

And I wondered if the committee had gotten any clarification on what period of time this number was supposed to have the movement was supposed to have taken place.

And whether you've gotten any further information specifically on children.

I think they used a figure of 200,000 children from institutions.

Did you did you get any greater clarification on that?

Thank you very much.

Well, it's of course difficult to to assess the numbers that are put forward from different sides.

We didn't get any clarification.

We didn't take any position on this.

We addressed the situation of children, the taking of the children from specific territories to the Russian Federation as such without addressing in any way the time frame or the numbers.

And then the next question we have Lisa from Voice of America.

Yes, good morning And yes, a couple, couple of more questions regarding Russia.

Could you be specific about the forms that the violations that Russia has that you say Russia has committed against the Ukrainians and other and ethnic minorities take?

I mean, what happens, are they imprisoned?

Are they refused certain protections of various kinds of you could be more specific about that and also you you are deeply concerned about the conscription.

Why is why is that?

I'd like you to be a bit more specific in regard to that and what, let me let me see now part here.

And what recommendations have you made to the to the Russian delegation?

When do they have to next report on whether they have followed it or not and what their reaction generally has been?

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Well, as I said, our mandate is not to to address human rights issues in general, but only insofar as they amount to racial discrimination.

In this regard, in the context of the armed conflict, the committee addressed basically three sets of of concerns.

The first are general human rights violations.

And here we, we took the information that was in front of us and we listed our concerns which applied to use of force, killings, executions and forced disappearance, torture, ****, sexual violence, arbitrary detentions and other forms.

The second, specifically within the scope of our mandate is the rise of racist hate speech and, and, and, and hate, hate propaganda.

And the third is, as you mentioned, the forced mobilisation and conscription, which of course, as such does not fall within the scope of our convention, but only falls in the scope of our convention when it affects groups and people that are protected under the convention in a disproportionate manner.

And here there were reports in front of the committee and information available to to the committee that the conscription practise of the state party disproportionately effects specific groups, ethnic minorities as well as indigenous peoples.

And those concerns we've expressed in our in our concluding observations with regard to the recommendations, we recommended with regard to all violations that the state party conduct investigations, that it punish perpetrators, that it adopt measures to prevent, that it provides compensation and restitution to victims of human rights violations.

With regard to racist hate speech, we similarly recommended that the State party conduct take any measures it can to end this practise to to address instances of racist hate speech and to to to to hold people who are responsible for hate speech accountable.

And with regard to the force mobilisation and conscription, in so far as it has a discriminatory impact, we recommended that the State party end this practise in all the territories under its effective control and to take measures to, to, to remedy the situation with regard to to people who are affected by this practise.

Thank you.

The next question will be from Jamie Associated Press.

Thank you.

Thank you, Vivian.

And my question is also about Russia.

I'm sorry you may have addressed this already because I had a little bit of trouble logging in initially.

You mentioned in the report that that you regret the refusal from Russia to provide information and you reiterated the committee's position on the legal status of Crimea under international law.

How concerned are you that the fact that you analysing Crimea, which many countries consider to still be part of Ukraine in the context of a review on Russia would project an image that in fact in some ways you're accepting a de facto annexation of of Crimea?

And could you just reiterate what your position actually is on the legal status of of Ukraine?

Thank you.

I mean of Crimea, sorry.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

We hadn't addressed this issue yet.

We had talked about the more procedural aspect that the Russian Federation advanced the position that we would be barred from addressing the situation due to the pending case in front of the International Court of Justice.

With regards to the status of Crimea, well, we are an specific body dealing with racial discrimination.

It's not our mandate to address general questions of international law.

But of course, as a body that is affiliated with the United Nations, we took note of the decisions of other UN organs, in particular, we, we we reiterated the position or the decisions taken by the UN General Assembly with regard to the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

And we are not at all worried that our analysing of the situation of Crimea and of the behaviour and the measures taken by the Russian Federation in Crimea would in any way give legitimacy or be an argument in favour of of accepting the annexation.

Because as we made clear in our concluding observations and as is constant practise of of this committee and this of of other human rights committees, we analyse the practise of a state with regard to to its territory, but also with regard to other territories, regardless of the status that are under the effective control of of the state party.

That can be in a situation of occupation, but it can also be in a different situation.

So we we reiterated the status of Crimea as it has been pronounced by the UN General Assembly, but nevertheless we held that since the Russian Federation is exercising effective control, it is it is responsible for its action in Crimea and the obligations under the Convention apply to its behaviour with regard to Crimea.

Thank you.

We have several follow up question.

The first will be from Yuri RA.

Yes, thank you.

My second question is not about the report that you published today, but about the discussion you had with the head of the Russian delegation, Igor Barrinoff.

He informed the committee of Russia's concern about the discrimination of Russian athletes in the world when he was speaking with you.

But we don't know if the committee has responded anything on this subject.

So is this the case or not?

Thank you for the question.

Well, as you mentioned this, the allegation of discrimination against Russian athletes was was put forward by the head of delegation in his introductory remarks to the state dialogue.

However, this question addresses not the obligations of the Russian Federation, but rather, let's say, measures taken by other institutions, for example, the International Olympic Committee, maybe other sports federations and associations and maybe other states.

The committee is, of course, aware of the discussions that are going on and the measures that have been taken and also of the decisions and statements by UN special procedures.

But those questions weren't, weren't addressed in the dialogue because they do not, they do not affect the obligations of the Russian Federation.

The state dialogue under the Convention is only concerned and is limited to questions that that that apply to the obligations of the Russian Federation.

So these questions were not raised during the dialogue and are not mentioned in the concluding observations.

Thank you.

And then we have Isabel.

Thank you very much on the in the report about the Russian Federation, I would like to understand a bit on the situation of the indigenous peoples.

You mentioned that, for example, they are their rights are being violated by, by their ethnic apartments and for example, that they are more maybe victims of conscription for transcriptions and other actions.

So if you can explain a little bit what is the scope of this problem, what their model is the indigenous peoples that are affected, affected.

I, I, I can assume that this happened, this happened in remote areas of, of Russia and how many people are I've been affected or what is this called?

But I would like to understand.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

The situation of indigenous peoples is, as in many countries and states, rather complex.

As you've mentioned, Indigenous peoples as an as an group protected under the Convention have been addressed in our report in numerous ways, For example, with regard to the to the conscription practises, which are, according to reports that have been available to the committee, disproportionately affecting also members of indigenous communities.

The Committee also addressed the situation of indigenous peoples in the Russian Federation more generally, both with regard to the recognition of indigenous peoples as well as to with regard to specific rights that indigenous peoples have under international law and have under our Convention.

For example, with regards to economic, industrial and natural resource development projects which can infringe on the rights of indigenous peoples, which require that decisions that affect indigenous peoples are taken only with their free, prior and informed consent.

And in this regard, the Committee has voiced some general concerns according to information in front of it.

We didn't go into specific cases, but we voiced our concerns in a more general manner.

Thank you.

I just wanted to come in here to say that there were several cross cutting issues, regardless of the country that came before us and the issue of indigenous peoples is one of them.

We had to really press States parties on the conditions and the violations towards indigenous peoples.

This came out, and I think you spoke to it, Mr Debbie, in the case of Argentina.

So that big issue was not confined to the Russian Federation, but came up practically for every country that came under, came to the committee in this session.

Not just the session, but every single session in Latin America is always the issue of mining, infringement of rights to land and so on.

So it's a really it's one of those cross cutting issues that come before served every single time.

Thank you.

I think we also have one more question from Voice of America.

Yeah.

First, I if you would respond to a question that I asked previously which wasn't answered, what was the reaction, the response of the Russian delegation to your criticisms?

Did they ****** it?

They take them in good faith.

And when does the delegation or Russia have to come back to report on what it has done in regard to your recommendations, if anything?

And then I have a separate question and that has to do with whether you have addressed the issue of LGBTQ people who have come under enormous amount of discrimination as from what I have read and if you would deal with that.

Thank you.

With regard to the reaction of the Russian Federation, well, we are now publishing the concluding observations and of course the Russian Federation is free to react to it, to the, to the statement of the Committee in any way they deem appropriate.

There are two next steps that will be taken from our sides.

The 1st is that, as per usual practise, the Committee identified a number of concerns which it deems to be particularly important and on which it expects a follow up report within one year, and that have been questions regarding the application of the Convention in the conflict in the context of the armed conflict.

Convention rights of residents of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol, as well as the situation of stateless persons and undocumented and irregular migrants, That is the one way in which we follow up on our recommendations.

And the second aspect is that, of course, the state dialogue is an ongoing process.

And as usual, we expect the next report and we expect it to be issued in March 2026.

And in that report, we expect the state party to address issues that we raised in our concluding observations this time.

And we will assess any progress, any measures taken and any other concerns that will be raised at that point.

Thank you.

Oh, and with regard to, excuse me, the LGBTQI plus community, well, we are committee dedicated to the to, to combating racial discrimination.

So we are not competent to deal with any forms of discrimination.

However, we are competent to address intersectional forms of discrimination that that apply to people who are both a group protected under our convention and belong to other groups.

And we've addressed this in a general way in our concluding observations that the state party must take measures to protect not only members who are not only people who are subject to racial discrimination, but also people who are subject to intersectional discrimination because they belong to a group protected under the convention as well as to the L GB TIQ Plus community.

As I don't see any more question either online or you're OK.

Sorry, Go ahead.

Yeah, yeah, sorry.

James Rabatsky from AFP just regarding the incitement to racial hatred against ethnic Ukrainians.

I was just wondering if you could elaborate on where that's seen, whether it's, you know, mainstream media, you know, public discourse, where, where is that actually seen?

Well, the reports that were in front of us actually indicated a broad rise of racist hate speech in all possible forms.

The prohibition of racist hate speech under the convention applies both to hate speech that's that is voiced by by public organs.

And we've had reports of a rise in that including, yeah, members of the of the government of the Russian Federation, but also of course, in public discourse.

And here the state party has a duty to protect, to take measures to prevent racist hate speech and to react to incidents of racist hate speech.

We also, of course, had reports of rise of racist hate speech in the media and on the Internet, including social media.

And here, of course, since this is a very significant form of hate speech, the committee, as per its usual practise, also recommended that the state party take effective measures to counter and to combat this problem.

OK.

If we don't have any more question, OK, the very last one.

Thanks.

Since you've mentioned just before the counter extremism low in Russia, in the Federation of Russia.

Sorry, we just wanted to raise you a a question regarding your last report that you've been published in December regarding Bahrain.

Because we still have two cases of two human rights defenders that have been charged against on the purpose on this counterterrorism laws and which are also discriminated because of their religion and racial grounds.

So we were wondering if you had received any follow-ups on this concerned and on the recommendation you released in December on Bahrain.

So the the follow up procedure requires states to report one year after they have been reviewed.

So the the follow up report that we got today did not include Bahrain, it included Chile, you know, and those who are due to report after one year.

And then the second follow up is about the next time the country comes before us.

So we haven't really addressed Bahrain this time.

Thank you.

Madam Chair, maybe you can use this time to conclude the press conference.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I wanted to go back to two issues I raised earlier on.

I just introduced them, but really did not elaborate.

And I wanted to take the opportunity now to mention the Early Warning and Urgent action, because under the Early Warning and Urgent Action procedure, we adopted a statement on the situation of migrants, asylum seekers and refugees of Haitian origin in the America's region, in which we call on the states concerned into ALIA to review their migration, asylum and refugee policies and laws in order to prevent and eradicate discriminatory practises, including on the basis of race, colour, dissent and the national or ethnic origin affecting persons on the move, which have a disproportionate impact on persons of Haitian origin.

It also requested them to investigate other allegations of human rights violations and abuses against persons of Haitian origin on the move committed by state and non state actors, including at borders, migrant detention centres and along migration routes, to punish those responsible and to provide rehabilitation and reparations to victims or their families.

It also issued a press statement for that purpose and these two texts are available on the third web page.

And again, just to remind you about General Recommendation 37, the right to health, the committee pursued its work towards the elaboration of its general recommendation on racial discrimination and the right to health by adopting its first draught.

And I want to say that this first draught will be available on the web page.

And we will be calling on all, all who are interested in solving the issue of discrimination and the right to health to send feedback to the the committee.

And finally, I, I, I spoke about the the ways in which certain cross cutting issues were raised, regardless of which country.

And I want to say one thing that one of the African countries reminded us about, think it was Niger.

Mr Diaby spoke about our interactive dialogue with Niger.

But Niger reminded us that sometimes we have to understand the roots, the historical roots of where some of the problems are coming from that they by themselves cannot solve.

And I think we have to bear this in mind because colonialism disfigured the socio economic future of so many countries in the Global South.

And when I think it was in connection with the the same issue of migrants, refugees and asylum seekers.

And we were calling on Niger to do better in ensuring the protection of these groups.

And they reminded us they are doing everything they can, but that we must remember that some of the problems they did not create and to exercise some sensitivity and also to call on those who created this kind of post colonial mess in many of our countries to take responsibility.

And I think that's why Mr Pandey mentioned in the context of Portugal the call for reparatory justice, because there are countries that were once colonised by Portugal that are unable to meet our requirements and answer some of our questions about how they protect vulnerable people because they say we can't do it alone.

And so I want to reiterate that the call for repatriate justice is as alive and well as it has been for 20 or odd years.

And in fact, I read recently where the President of Portugal has said it is time and it is right to discuss apology and reparatory justice.

So I think that's a positive move and I look forward to further statements from Portugal on this.

Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Shepherd.

Thank you, Mr Payendi.

Thank you, Mr Dhabi, for your presentation and thank you for all the journalists participating either online or physically in the room.

I think the press conference has come to an end now.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.