HRC Press Conference: UN Special Rapporteur on Russia

good afternoon, everyone. And thank you for joining us at this press conference.

Our speaker today is Ms Marianna Kato,

who is the special rapporteur on the

human rights situation in the Russian Federation.

Ms. Kato

has over two decades of experience as a journalist and human

rights defender leader in the war zones of Bosnia and Herzegovina,

Kosovo, Chechnya and Ukraine.

Her human rights experience includes heading Amnesty International's

investigations of human rights in the Russian Federation.

She'll address you today on her report to

the 57th session of the Human Rights Council.

We'll begin with opening remarks by the special

rapporteur and then open the floor for questions.

Ms. Katsuro,

you have the floor.

Thank you very much.

Um

and thank you so much for

your interest and to coming to hear about Russia.

As you probably know,

my interactive dialogue has now been moved to tomorrow entirely at 10 o'clock.

So

I hope you will be following that as well.

The situation in the Russian Federation has gotten

much worse since my report last year,

and

the country is now run by a state sponsored system

of fear and punishment, including the use of torture

with absolute impunity.

Human rights defenders,

journalists and political figures are persecuted

and incarcerated in greater numbers.

Anti war dissent of any kind is criminalised.

Police violence is Condoned.

Arbitrary arrests and detentions are widespread.

Prison conditions have worsened,

with increased solitary confinement and death in custody

particularly used against political prisoners.

There are no independent institutions left to safeguard

the rule of law and access to justice.

All of this has been made legal by new or expanded laws that violate human rights

and

are used to suppress civil society,

descending views and political opposition.

What is the cost of descent

in today's Russia

dissent against the Ukraine war?

To begin with, it's extremely high. The cost is extremely high.

Russians are getting shockingly long prison sentences.

Seven years for reading a poem,

saying a prayer or producing a play perceived to be anti war.

Seven years for posting on social media,

a United Nations report about the Ukraine war.

Peaceful demonstrators are arrested and many

beaten up by police without recourse.

There is deliberate use of torture and

treatment

in places of detention.

Anti war activists are being punished by forced psychiatric treatment

very much reminiscent of the practise against Soviet dissidents

and human rights defenders during

the Soviet times.

Some journalists, just doing their jobs reporting,

have been in prison for up to 22 years on trumped up charges

and as a warning to others to stick to the state's version of reality.

More than 500 people have been prosecuted for spreading fake news

or similar charges under the war censorship laws.

At least 30 journalists are currently in jail on fabricated criminal charges.

Many journalists have had to flee the country.

Most independent media have shut down or moved abroad.

There are more than 1300 over

political prisoners in jail.

Many are tortured or there.

Conditions of detention amount to torture and ill treatment.

Alexei

Navalny's death

in state custody in February

is just one example of the brutal treatment of the political opposition.

Russian citizens were not even allowed to mourn his death

without the prospect of police harassment and arrest.

Lawyers are particularly

pro prosecuted and persecuted.

They are disbarred and intimidated for

providing legal services to persecuted groups

or individuals. Some with high profile clients, have had to flee the country.

The state's legal system

violates Russia's human rights

the war.

Censorship laws make it a crime to tell the truth

about what is going on in the war against Ukraine.

Penal

penalties can include long prison sentences and crippling financial punishment.

A journalist and his wife had all their assets confiscated

because of their criticism of the war,

foreign agents and undesirables.

This is all in inverted commas are terms used

to target and shut down the work of media,

human rights activists and anyone who engages in civic activism

or expresses an alternative viewpoint

from that of the government.

Penalties can include prosecution, fines and prison sentences.

Even Nobel Prize winners are not exempt.

Like

Muratov

Dmitry Muratov,

the editor in chief of Nove

Gaie

newspaper,

serious charges like treason, espionage,

extremism and other laws on national security are being used

against journalists and to imprison people for trivial anti war actions

like six years in prison for terrorism.

For a teenager who painted some anti war graffiti

12 years for treason for a woman who made a small donation to a Ukrainian charity,

recruitment for war against Ukraine targets

criminals, convicted prisoners

and minorities, indigenous peoples, migrants and other vulnerable groups,

often under coercion,

conscientious objection is not respected during mobilisation

and conscientious objectors are sent to fight

in Ukraine.

Torture and other severe punishments are used to force unwilling recruits to fight

or to punish regular soldiers with new and harsher punishments added to the law.

In their conduct of the war against Ukraine,

the Russian authorities have violated a wide range

of international human rights and humanitarian law.

Ukrainian soldiers captured by Russian military forces

are not accorded prisoner of war status,

so

are de facto not protected under the Geneva Conventions.

More than

1600 Ukrainian civilians detained by Russian military forces in Ukraine

are currently held in detention by Russian authorities.

Reports from those released in prisoner exchanges describe

horrific conditions in Russian prisons with torture,

rape and sexualized violence widespread.

Many of those deported to Russian prisons are facing charges of

terrorism, espionage or related crimes

facing

from anything from 20 years imprisonment to life imprisonment.

Given that the Russian authorities are not recognising combatants as

POWs, they are charged and tried in military courts. But as civilians

we shouldn't forget that more than 19,000 Ukrainian Children

have been, but we don't know the exact number

have been forcibly transferred or deported from Ukraine,

and only 388 have been returned.

Russian authorities have failed to provide any information

as to their whereabouts.

My report details many more violations. Um, you have it in front of you.

Most of the violations and the focus of the report, of course,

has been on civil violations of civil and political rights,

particularly in connection to

any anti war dissent and expression which the

Russian authorities have been trying to silence.

We should

and I, as a special rapporteur, have always been underlying the link.

We cannot look at the human rights situation

in Russia without seeing the stark link between

aggression abroad

and repression at home

and anything that is happening inside Russia. At the moment. It is coloured by

the ongoing already in its third year,

aggressive war against Ukraine.

I should also mention

that,

the recent incursion

in

August on 6 August of the Ukrainian forces in the Russian Kursk region.

He has also left desperate civilians caught between the two warring

sides.

There have been various appeals from these civilians.

We don't know their exact number, according to some estimates

or some information coming, particularly from Suja

Region

369. 9 civilians are trapped. Other estimates speak of 698 civilians.

Others even speak up until 1000 civilians.

They are appealing to their own government. They have been appealing

to the Red Cross to the IC RC,

uh,

to us as United Nations to my mandate to the High Commission for Human Rights to the UN

Secretary General

and they have been asking for a humanitarian corridor.

We are monitoring the situation with these civilians.

As you know, my mandate covers

and I work on the Russian Federation within its recognised borders.

I do not cover the occupied territories of Ukraine

under the effective control of the Russian government.

However,

that doesn't mean that the war is not,

in a way

moving between the two countries.

And as I said in my report,

I have particularly paid attention to the deported in their thousands.

Ukrainian civilians and military who have been

deported to Russian prisons kept in communicado,

kept without

without charges without access to a lawyer or any information to their relatives.

At the same time,

the civilians in Kursk region within the

Russian Federation's official borders who are now caught

in

between the warring sides also deserve absolute attention

and humanitarian corridors so they could evacuate.

I hope the

and will be allowed access as well as the United Nations.

There has been apart from these appeals also conversations.

But the two warring sides have to agree to

that Both the Ukrainian government and the Russian government.

maybe I spoke too long. Maybe I should just mention to you a couple of issues that, um

are important in this report.

In addition to an update of the political repressions in Russia,

I have also focused on

the violence against women and girls because this

is one issue that was mentioned last year.

But we didn't really I didn't really manage to

go deeper into it in the report.

the repression, Um,

sorry. The recruitment of convicted prisoners, thousands of them.

I think one estimate is

170,000 convicted violent criminals

who were first sent to recruited to fight in Ukraine in return to pardons and

shortened sentences.

Now it has become an official Russian Ministry of Defence policy. There is a new law

and they officially are recruited to fight against Ukraine.

Many of them who return and this is an emerging trend

have been

perpetrating new violent crimes

to begin

to begin with against women against girls against Children,

including sexual violence and killings. This has increased

the violence against women in Russia, which already is on a very high level,

with thousands of women

dying each year as a result of domestic

violence and other forms of violence against women.

However,

there is no law in Russia distinctly

criminalising domestic violence or gender based violence.

The situation in the North Caucasus is even more shocking,

with women and girls being subjected to forced

marriages to the so called honour killings and crimes

against honour of their relatives

and female genital mutilation something which

many people don't even realise, particularly in Dagestan.

In the North Caucasus, girls continue to suffer in silence.

There is no law or no effort by the Russian authorities to actually

outlaw and stop and end the practise of female genital mutilation of girls.

Thank you for now. And, uh, I expect your questions. I don't want to take

the stage. I could talk endlessly, I suppose.

Thank you.

Thank you. To the special rapporteur,

We have a lot of journalists also joining us online today.

But as usual, we'll first start with the reporters in the room and then move on.

Uh, to those of you online,

please state your name and organisation before asking a question

is the

good morning. I am Isabel

Saco.

I work for the Spanish news agency FM.

I would like to know if there is

You have documented

any attempt of mobilisation by the families of soldiers

in the front,

alive or death.

If there is any movement to know about them about their fate,

if this

is allowed or not

because the I think that the problematic of all the thousands of

thousands of

young people in the front

we don't talk about about them very much and most,

most of our many of them they are forced to be to be there.

So if you can maybe

explain a little bit

on that and also on the on this policy, uh,

defence ministry policy that you just mentioned.

Is this the same that, uh,

just recently,

um um President Putin signed to in an attempt to increase the number of soldiers

in in the army is this is this the same. Or this is another one.

Yes, thank you very much. You are talking about the Russian soldiers, right?

Not the Ukrainian soldiers.

Yes,

I will start with your second question. Yes.

In March 2024 there was a federal law adopted which,

actually the Ministry of Defence recruitment of prisoners to

join the war against Ukraine has been regulated.

So now

it's legal while since the beginning of the war.

And that was in my previous report. We've been monitoring

a trend of prisoners being recruited

illegally

by the Wagner Group by the paramilitary

formation

Wagner.

Um

so according to approximate estimates, as I said, 170,000 inmates,

including by the way, 1000 women convicted prisoners

are being sent to the war to the front line

in exchange for pardons or related or reduced sentences.

So

this is

I mean, I have been worrying basically about the return of many

because a lot of these prisoners have been serving

really long sentences for rape, for

killing, for murder,

for violent crimes.

and we even know that some of them who have

re offended because they stay for a certain amount of time

in Ukraine fighting. Then they are released. They go into the peaceful life

already without criminal record

and reoffending.

The problem is that courts in Russia the judges have been using

the participation in the war or the so called special military operation,

as they call it,

as a mitigating factor to actually pass lenient sentences to these prisoners,

and not only to these prisoners, anybody.

Anyone who participated in the war then comes back into civilian life

and and commits a crime.

The fact that their hero from the special military operation is used

by the judges to pass linen sentences even for crimes as murder,

for which usually

you can

receive up to a life imprisonment.

And your first question was about the mob

mobilised, mobilisation, practises

any mobilisation by families in Russia.

What do you mean by families

of soldiers that I have young people sent to the to the front? Uh uh,

recruited

in some way? Forced?

Yes, I don't know about the families, but it's

individuals

that are

either forced or they know that if they are called up to mobilisation.

If there is no recognition of conscientious

objection for

the mobilisation,

although there is it's a right enshrined in the Constitution of Russia

that you can. If you are a conscientious

objector

to military service,

you can receive you have the right to an alternative civilian service,

although this doesn't apply to the mobilisation,

according to the Russian authorities.

So basically anybody who refused

call up papers is then treated as deserter and criminally charged as deserter,

and there are many cases like that

also the practises of the Russian authorities to mobilise men into the army.

I have observed that they have been targeting

far away places in the regions of Russia, in Siberia,

in small towns, but also targeting indigenous people, national minorities even,

you know,

I have been following the developments in the

war almost daily since the beginning of it.

Not anymore so much. But I

remember that in the beginning, when Russia attacked Ukraine,

you would see on the front line on the Russian side,

there were almost no Slavic faces. It was the boats.

It was the

kans. It was the

Chechens. It was the national minorities of Russia.

And as you know, Russia is a very multicultural state,

but also the

indigenous people

who

many of them are from very small numbered nations,

and by this massive mobilisation, most of it forced,

they are facing extinction

because also, civil society have been, um,

looking at, um the rate from what they could gather the rate of casualties of,

uh, you know, of dead,

dead dead soldiers that are returning and they have a whole statistics drawn out

that basically, um, the mobilisation of indigenous people,

particularly from small numbered nations,

is massive.

And the death death rate is massive, which is threatening them with extinction.

So,

yes, the mobilisation hasn't been so brutal in Moscow and ST Petersburg.

Obviously,

because these are the more sophisticated, it's the capital.

It's the most sophisticated places where people know their rights.

But when you go 100 miles away

on the train from Moscow and ST Petersburg and

let alone in the far away regions of Siberia,

as you know, Russia is a gigantic country,

people don't even feel they have a choice. They don't even know their rights,

or I have documented cases where the military goes door to door.

They also, you know, and just drag out the men from indigenous villages

or they are using the vulnerabilities of many people who

are,

you know, they are alluring them

with promises for good salary. Because people are

quite poor in many regions of Russia.

Sick.

Yeah. Um Thank you, Nick. Coming. Bruce, The New York Times.

I wonder if you have found anything like a credible or or or

solid number of casualties sustained by Russian forces in Ukraine

in the course of this war.

And when you say that some of the minorities are facing extinction,

I wonder if you could be a bit more specific

and say which ones, particularly you think

are most at risk from this kind of death toll.

And one other question

you mentioned, 388 Children have been returned.

Ukrainian Children have been returned.

Is that part of

a

a continuing trickle of of returnees?

Or is that something that happened in the first two years and has long since stopped?

Thank you.

Thank you very much. I

am.

Could you please

Elena, help me. Which page is our indigenous people?

Uh, it's all in the report

on the casualties.

As you know,

in any war being an aggressive invasion like the current war against Ukraine.

Both sides and I have been to many wars in the world in my past,

and I know that there is no reliable figures on casualties

because this is the best kept secret by both sides,

for whatever reasons, but also for the Russian authorities.

Clearly they would have

a

lot of angry mothers, a lot of angry families,

probably if the exact number of casualties is released.

So no, that wasn't my purpose to go and count

the dead soldiers in Russia or in Ukraine.

But

I would say the UN human rights monitoring mission has been counting,

at least from open sources already for many years. The mission exists.

It is the commissioner's mission since 2014,

so they have been releasing figures on casualties. But I don't know to what extent

their information is reliable, either

because they are following open sources

or information from relatives who already had, um, you know,

receiving the dead bodies of their loved ones.

Um, I think there is also,

um, there is thank you. There is also,

there was a recent I saw

again

something around the figure of 80,000,

which Wall Street Journal has pointed out about casualties

in Ukraine,

and I think the government wasn't happy about it because they were saying no,

it's much less the president was coming out to speak.

This is not something that

one can be. Sure, And nobody will be happy if

both sides in war.

one thing is clear. It's, um, even monitoring. You know what's happening?

is really that it's a massive amount of casualties. It is

on both sides, I would say,

uh, in terms of the indigenous people.

one second.

Yes. The report is only 10,700 words.

So I can't I don't think we actually managed

to list all of the ones that are threatened,

but I will be very happy to give you their names.

They are not necessarily listed in the report.

but yes, we have this information

from indigenous people

and particularly from the small number one.

I remember.

Um, I have a regular, uh, consultations with a group of indigenous leaders.

So I meet with them and I request information on all the

worrying the community issues.

Um, one of them being, by the way, which I think is is very important,

is Um and this is also in the report.

It's, um,

the Reprisals against

human rights organisations for communicating with the

United Nations for participating in United Nations meetings

and a number of several At least we know,

indigenous Russian human rights organisations.

There has been a move as a Reprisal, I believe, to close them down in Russia

and um, some of the you know, they

they miraculously got,

um

ECOSOC

status which is also a very cumbersome procedure where

governments in New York are able to actually,

um

and the Russian government has been trying

to prevent Russian organisations from getting an ECOSOC

status

now with indigenous organisations they're trying to They're writing letters to

the UN in New York to the Special Committee on ECOSOC

asking that these organisations

their ECOSOC

status is taken.

I consider these Reprisals for their active role at the UN.

You should know that the indigenous people of Russia has been largely invisible for

I don't know

forever.

Um that's why with my mandate, I am very much committed to give them a voice

and to give a prominent space for the violations happening against them,

one of them being this disproportionate and disproportionate mobilisation.

and

it's very difficult to follow it.

As you know, I don't have access to Russia, even if I did,

because they live in, um,

remote areas. I was even told, for example, um,

that in the Republic of

Sakha

Yakutia,

usually the indigenous, um, usually indigenous men are involved deep in the tiger

in the forest

being, um, you know, taking care of animals of, uh, that's what they do.

This is their traditional,

um, work.

And I was told this story how the Russian military

said, send, uh, helicopters, military helicopters to go and get

a bunch of, um, indigenous men

to take them directly to fight to recruit them to fight in the war against Ukraine.

Mind you that with this region of the

Republic of

Sakha

Yakutia,

people don't even have access to medical care

because they are so far away.

There are no roads. They cannot, and there is no contact with the capital.

So people die, for example, of appendicitis

because there is no helicopters to come and get

them to give them access to medical care.

But the military put a special effort to send these helicopters

to virtually kidnap these men and send them to fight.

so there are many stories The indigenous people

are also of Russia are also trying to,

uh, you know, they're getting strength as human rights defenders.

And I see the role of my mandate, also

of including them as much,

or encouraging them to be included in the mainstream human rights,

uh, human rights Civil Society of Russia,

which they haven't been for many,

many decades.

Uh, if there are no other questions in the room, we'll go. Oh, I'm sorry. Isabel. Yes?

There was one outstanding question about Children return of Ukrainian Children.

Uh, yes. Um, it's very difficult to get to come by information. Um, yes.

These are usually the the the the figure that is quoted are the ones

that were returned in the first two years. Um,

you know that a lot of these Children are in, um,

they have been, uh, in,

uh,

a confidential process of adoption,

or they have already been adopted through a confident

It's

a

confidential procedure,

and it's very difficult to

even get information.

The authorities, of course, are not willing to release it, as you know,

not on the Children not on the deported

Ukrainians who are now in prison without charges.

there is still the, uh, investigation by the

International Criminal Courts prosecu prosecutor,

which I hope, um,

is getting somewhere

ahead. I mean, I haven't seen my role as investigating or monitoring in particular,

the issue of Children for several reasons. One

not to really

be

on the way of the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court

investigation because that's actually collecting evidence

that could be used in court

two.

It's very difficult to put on the spot

and try to get information from defence lawyers,

Russian

or human rights defenders. As I said, because this procedure is confidential,

uh, of adoption

and they could be prosecuted for violating

the law on confidentiality on adoption.

So the information the same goes with the Russian civil society.

However,

I know that there has been very brave Russian activists who has been trying to

help

really returned some of the Children, sometimes even under false pretence.

I'm not going to go further, but I know they have been

almost risking their lives to get some groups of Children.

Ukrainian Children returned

and of course,

information comes from the returned Children who are already in Ukraine.

And as you've noticed in my report,

I have been talking about some Children being subjected to

physical or even sexual violence in the Russian institutions where they have been,

um, held meaning Children's homes or

educational institutions.

There are allegations about this.

Isabel, did you have a follow up?

A

follow

up

on,

uh,

on

on my first question on

on the recruitment. Because what I I was asking you.

You mentioned this, uh, situation of prisoners being released to go to the front.

But this is you said this this, uh,

it was decided on march, but, uh, last week I found in

the news.

President

Putin orders Russia to boost the size of the army by 108 80,000

troops.

So where is to your knowledge? What? Where is all these people? Uh, coming from,

uh, it It can be the the reason for social discontent inside Russia this new,

uh, need of more men to go to the front.

Well, with the mobilisation in Russia, it was open, but it was never closed.

So the mobilisation is going on all the time throughout the war

and the conditions for mobilisation are the same. I mean, on paper.

These are men who had been through military service or have been,

you know, serving

serving in the military previously,

or have rare professions that could serve the military.

Nothing to my knowledge has changed.

I mean, in parallel, they continued the recruitment of prisoners.

This also now since March has been regularised by a federal law.

So the statement of the president of Russia that they need more men,

you know,

they have been needing more men regularly and

they have been getting these men nothing unusual.

Whether that would lead to a discontent in Russia.

I don't know. We have to monitor the situation.

However, Russia is 150 million people 149 and whatever, almost 150 million.

So 180,000 is not so such a big number,

which I suppose they cannot accommodate through their mobilisation.

What I am monitoring in my mandate, is when they

do forced mobilisation where people are kidnapped where torture

is used against soldiers who do not want to

fight

in Ukraine.

Even soldiers who are already in the army, they don't want to follow

orders.

Criminal orders, I would say sometimes to shoot or to participate in the war.

Or they claim conscientious objection.

And they are not given this conscientious objection.

And I have included in my report

the use of various methods of coercion, punishment

of soldiers as well, who are already on the front line

but who refuse to fight.

And they usually put them in pits in the ground to keep them without water and food,

torture them, beat them

in order to,

you know, to force them to continue fighting

in the war. So

that's what I monitor the violations.

As you know, mobilising people, even Spain probably is the same.

Mobilising people for war is not a human rights violation per SE.

I mean, we could all be called up.

I'm Bulgaria,

and I could be called up by my government

if they decide to aggressively go against another country.

But, um,

there are human rights violations that,

um

are part of this process, and this is what is important to monitor.

And I also have a recommendation to governments of

the European Union and the international community

to pay special attention to the conscientious

objectors and to the men that actually

refused to be part of this war.

And they are now asking for political asylum

or any form of protection in our countries,

and we should not return them back. I mean, this is to the governments,

uh, because basically, they have been brave enough to refuse to risk,

you know, imprisonment. And

but they ran through the border. They are now in our countries,

and they're asking for protection.

So if returned,

that would be a violation of the principle of non refoulement.

Because for sure, they'll be tortured. And for sure, they'll be imprisoned

for refusing to fight

against Ukraine.

Thank you. Yes,

Yes. Thank you.

An

spi

from A

in Geneva.

Some kind of follow up of what you just said. Do you have any figures?

Elements about the

indications about the number of Russian fleeing Russia or being able to flee Russia

to Europe and on the worsening of the situation that the

human rights situation that you mentioned at the beginning of your briefing

How would you say, would you qualify this worsening? Is it something

that is more widespread? Or it's more or it's the severity of the situation.

If you could be more specific to qualify this worsening, thank you

to qualify. What? The worsening of the situation, the worsening of the situation.

So how many Russians are fleeing?

I mean, um,

we don't have exact figure.

Uh, however, for example,

I know that, um,

when the mobilisation was open because we were just on the

subject of mobilised men or men who refuse to be mobilised.

Um, there was up to, I think a million men that actually were, um,

running through the border,

uh, to other countries where they can.

Then there was, you know, there the journalists, the human rights defenders,

they have already

left.

you know, um,

a lot of them,

but we don't have the exact number. I know that there was a number about

something like 600,000

in Europe Are people that

actually oppose the government,

their government critics who opposed the war against Ukraine,

and they have left

Russia,

and are currently in Europe?

I don't think necessarily. At the moment, there are many

because many governments, some governments,

have been very welcoming and doing a lot to

protect the journalists.

The human rights defenders, the dissenters, the anti war critics.

But some governments have been doing exactly the opposite.

Um, we just spoke about indigenous people

I recently met in one European country, an indigenous leader

who has been waiting for three years for an asylum interview,

and he's been already thinking of a suicide he shared with me.

He cannot return to Russia because

his activism was against the war and against

forced mobilisation of indigenous people,

and he is now waiting for an asylum interview

in immigration detention. For three years,

he actually shared with me that he has now a Ukrainian girlfriend,

and they cannot in this new country, and they cannot really even see each other much.

They cannot live together because he is still waiting for his asylum interview.

One example only, but I could give many.

So, um, blankets. Um,

policies of reaction to what's happening in Russia have been

really affecting first and foremost the human rights defenders from Russia

by some countries

because they don't have freedom of movement.

A number of them continue to work in Russia, although on the brink of being detained,

arrested, they are already branded as foreign agents

but they are returning and continuing to work.

It's very difficult to get visas if you are

a Russian human rights defender in many countries,

Um and mind you,

the Russian human rights defenders are

also assisting the Ukrainian civil society now

in

investigating or monitoring war crimes and

the situation with the deported Ukrainians,

the deported Children.

They were working clandestinely together.

But

there was a case. One European government

even deported from their borders.

One Russian human rights defender was going to Ukraine in order to

help the Ukrainian civil society

deported not to Russia. She's already living in exile. But I think this is a shame

because this is it is extremely important that we contribute to the

survival of the Russian civil Society and the Russian anti war critics.

It's never easy in any war to be against

your government or to be against the war effort.

but imagine Russia with this draconian clamp down on any anti war

expression and any

dissenting voice different than the government.

So you're asking me to qualify, how the situation has worsened?

I mean, it's all in the report, but, um uh

I mean, just in in, uh

I think I already in a way unpacked it.

They're more, um,

their additions to the legislation on foreign agent on undesirable organisations

that are further curtailing any

you know, any functioning of

of human rights activism, human rights

defenders or

or independent media.

The lawyers at the moment has been the new target. I mean this.

The lawyers, the defence lawyers usually are the final frontier

because everybody in any society

has the right to a legal defence.

But now the Russian human rights lawyers have been absolutely targeted.

Many have been disbarred,

but for

representing political dissidents or

anti war critics, or

for representing Ukrainians as well.

Um, at the same time they have been imprisoned. It's not only Navalny's lawyers, um,

and charged with extremism,

terrorism charges with extremism in the case of Navalny's lawyers.

But, uh um,

there is a new law on advocator

on the legal profession, which essentially

is another draconian method of, uh,

monitoring the activities of the defence lawyers.

Do you know we were talking about indigenous people

in many regions of Russia because we were trying to

facilitate a lawyer of taking up a case of one shaman

who was protested single handedly against the big oil company

to save the sacred grounds of his people.

There was not a single lawyer in this region that was ready to take up his case,

so lawyers from Moscow and ST Petersburg had to be

sent

because usually the local lawyers under a lot of scrutiny.

So it's becoming impossible in Russia to actually even have a pretend pretence of

of a legal defence,

let alone the whole independence of the judiciary.

I mean,

another very worrying situation was after the terrorist attack at Croco

City

in Moscow.

We all saw how tortured half

dead suspects in the terrorist attack

was not only brought to a judge

who didn't even notice that these people

were barely breeding and they were all scarred

as a result of torture, with without one ear without an eye.

At the same time, all of this was portrayed on Russian television,

which actually showed a new level of the government

approving, normalising and condoning the use of torture.

Some of the leading media propagandist figures, like Mrs Simonyan,

even was cheering and encouraging

the use of torture, the cutting of the ear of the suspects.

We also saw

how

Tajiks in particular,

but also migrants from Central Asia and other countries

have been particularly targeted after the terrorist attack.

Um, many of them had to flee the country.

They were literally, um, many of them ill treated, detained, subjected to,

you know, to targeted checks.

so, yes, I mean, I could go on and on, but, uh, it's,

um The repression has tightened since since last year.

And I think these signs, um,

and particularly after Navalny's death,

And when people were not even allowed to mourn,

I mean, a priest, the religious figures.

Somebody received seven years for a prayer, you know, against the war.

Um, another priest who wanted to have

a,

uh a morning.

Uh, you know, a service for Navalny

was arrested only because he wanted to

have a religious service after Navalny's death.

LGBT people,

you know, somebody was arrested a young woman in a cafe because she had

earrings frog shaped with a rainbow.

She was detained because she was accused

of promoting the symbol of extremist organisation

because since last november,

the Russian Supreme Court pronounced the entire

movement

in Russia and abroad as extremists.

This is a very serious criminal offence, by the way,

carrying very serious penalties

and the repression started.

So this community has been driven even more underground.

Um, anti war poems cannot be spoken.

Two poets received after being tortured for their anti war poems.

They received seven years, one of them seven years imprisonment, the 2nd

5.5.

I mean, if this is not a worsening situation, I don't know what it is.

Basically, I also have part in my report talking about

the massive now surveillance of everybody on the Internet.

Please have a look at that. Because

that also shows that the Russian authorities are not only physically going

after the dissidents and anti war critics and human rights defenders,

but also now through the Internet.

Nobody is safe.

Thank you. Can we take the questions online quickly? Because we have three. Jeremy.

Yes, Thank you. I I'll be quick. Just, um first one is that, uh I arrived a bit late.

Sorry, I.

I didn't receive the the the report in my emails.

I don't know if it's under embargo until, uh, tomorrow morning.

Can you could clarify that for me, please?

a question about the the

the convicted, um,

people who are now fighting on the front line.

Uh, you I think you mentioned 100 and 70,000.

Um, what you said about them returning and committing new crimes against women.

Do you have? I know it's really hard to have figures,

but do you have an estimation? How many of them at least

have returned?

freely. I mean, after

having fought on the on the front line.

And, um, maybe your last one is that, uh,

you you you you mentioned you answered Anya's

question on how would you qualify the deter

deterioration of of, um, the the the situation there, But,

uh, the the another way to put it,

uh,

are they human rights left in Russia? That would be my question.

Your last question is priceless. It's really good

we thinking

whether there are any human rights left in Russia.

Do you know, I believe that

we

that will be

a hope for human rights left in Russia

until the moment when we have the

brave human rights defenders and journalists and lawyers

that are still working inside Russia. Despite the odds, despite the danger,

I

think it's time to actually

look at,

you know, if we could protect the individuals, that's what matters.

The brave individuals, they will carry the flame further

in that new Russia, One day of the Russia of human rights,

I am often asked by politicians or governments

Oh,

you know. But

we need to actually protect the politicians.

We need to nurture new politicians in Russia.

I always answer to the government. Actually,

the future politicians of Russia, hopefully will come.

I somehow feel, will come from the civil society.

They will come from the human rights defenders

and these are in fact the politicians we want to see, isn't it

because I didn't speak about the elections?

But it's in the report, the recent presidential elections, which were,

you know, there was really no no no choice in these elections when the only two

election candidates who were against the war openly against the war in Ukraine

they were not allowed to even run.

So

you cannot even think that there could be politicians and Navalny

died in detention.

We have Gono,

another politician who is very ill still in detention,

seven years imprisonment.

Now they are increasing to further charges only because he

was against the war and against the staging some superficial

Children's paintings exhibition for the first of June

of Happy Russian Children pictures. And he said, I'm sorry.

While our army is killing Ukrainian Children,

we cannot have this happy paintings exhibition for that.

He received seven years

and he is still in prison.

there is hope for human rights in Russia, but mind you,

the government and the authorities are doing everything

to kill that cope to silence the messengers of hope the human rights activists,

the

government, critics, the civil society, the media, the journalists,

the lawyers

and anybody, of course, who is different

could be an easy,

um, easily given to the people.

As you know, these are the ones that are actually responsible for everything.

The LGBT movement,

then the second one pronounced by the Supreme Court as extremist,

was the so called We don't know who they are but the separatist movement

and this

is also used to close down indigenous peoples organisations,

national minorities organisations in Russia,

anybody who they haven't really closed down Previ

Previously in the past two years,

your question was also about

there was the first question which was about.

You said that you didn't manage to receive the report.

The report is online.

It's hidden because the UN has this very

difficult website or the Human Rights Council.

But, um, I'll be happy to send you the report.

We have it in Russian as well

in order to reach the Russian people.

there was a question about, um

I think it was on how many

soldiers have

the prisoners?

Is that what you meant? The 170.

Would you like to repeat?

Yes, it was about

I remember. Do we have now statistics on this new trend of increasing the

violence against women or re offending by these prisoners?

No. There is no such statistics, Unfortunately, because this trend is now forming

and the Russian civil Society have been

collecting information mainly in order to be

really

factual, they are trying to monitor the court records

of any

cases that have come to court.

This is how we know about the leniency of sentencing of those who

participate

as heroes of the special military operation

by the judges.

it's not only the prisoners and the

you know, the convicted criminals that are reoffending

when returning to civilian life.

Mind you, we have observed that after the two wars in Chechnya,

we observed that with the so called Afghan

Afghan syndrome

earlier in the 19 eighties, when the Soviet Union was fighting in Afghanistan,

the level of trauma, the level of atrocities. If you want that people

often are forced, soldiers are forced to participate in

because it's either their life or they have to, or they follow the

criminal orders.

I think the level of trauma leads to a number

of men mobilised men who are returning without being former prisoners

to, um,

to being involved,

to begin with in domestic violence, violence against women in their own family,

violence against Children.

So we have to understand this is now evolving. The war hasn't even finished.

Um, but with the prisoners, it's

as I said, the civil society is following. Uh, I'm also following with my team

any information that we can get through public sources

through the media and then through the court records.

But certainly there is a trend, and there is an increase.

Thank you. Emma.

You had a question.

Yes. Thanks for taking it. Um, it was about political prisoners, Please.

The estimate of 1300

looks a bit bigger than previous ones I've seen. And I was just wondering,

is that because, uh, Moore have been imprisoned,

or was the scale of it previously not well known?

And could you say something about how you

sourced it and and how many of those prisoners

are really at risk of of death Because of

the conditions that you described in your report.

Thank you.

There was some question about, um, uh,

increase in political prisoners.

Uh, and the second one was about, um

OK,

Emma, what was the second question? Sorry.

Uh, just just the estimate. Um, has it gotten bigger?

Uh, or was the scale previously not known what risks they face And, um,

the political prisoners,

right? Political prisoners. The 1300. You?

Yes. And you had one more question, which was about what?

Or it was just one question.

It was one big question.

OK, sorry. We can barely hear. Yeah.

yes. I mean, the the the the estimates we have, um, for over 1301 1300 plus

political prisoners. Um,

uh, you're saying that it has increased, uh, Well, obviously, it has increased, um,

their new laws or amendments to laws that has been introduced.

Um, and of course, um, these are

not just, uh,

demonstrators. People that participate in, um,

uh, anti war marches, which, actually, uh, there has been a total crackdown on this,

so we haven't really seen

recently such, um, street activity apart from, of course,

following the death of Alexei

Navalny

when a lot of people were immediately detained, Arrested,

who were even laying flowers in front of,

um, improvised shrines for navalny, usually in front of monuments from,

um, the Stalinist, Um

Commemorating the victims of the Stalinist repressions.

Uh, but also, as you know, people have been, uh, also detained who were queuing, um,

to be at Navalny's funeral or not even allowed to to come closer.

so, yes, there is an increase in the political prisoners we don't even know.

Um, the entire number of who and when, Uh,

he has been detained in various regions.

Um, the Russian civil Society is monitoring, um, they have

various methods. Uh, memorial, for example, is more, um,

kind of conservative in their methods of estimation.

Um, over the

info is another organisation with a lot of volunteers.

Young volunteers inside Russia who can continue

to work clandestinely inside the Russian Federation.

So we get information. But it's, um

uh, you know, maybe the political prisoners are much higher number. We don't know

at the same on the same token, if you want.

We don't even know how many Ukrainians have been deported

because they are kept in communicado and without charges.

I just reminded myself

because if we are talking that we don't know the Russian political prisoners,

we certainly don't know

the number of Ukrainians

detained, deported, and then detained

incommunicado.

I mean, many of them I consider

subjected to enforced disappearance.

Absolutely.

With the political prisoners, there is a trend of, um, of course,

of increased use of,

torch conditions of detention amounting to torture and ill treatment.

Solitary confinement.

I mean, Navalny was put in a punishment cell.

This whole, you know, dichotomy of using punishment cells,

particularly against political prisoners, is another very worrying trend.

This is how they lose their health. This is how they,

uh, additional pressure is put on them.

Conditions are totally torturous in this punishment cells.

Um, Navalny was put for something like 396 days if, uh or 94 days, if I'm not mistaken

again and again and again, um, in in punishment cells,

you're cut off from the outside world.

It's a solitary confinement. Essentially,

and then, um What? They're what they're risking or facing.

I mean, they're facing to die in detention.

They're facing,

you know, like Gorio

who is very ill by now.

Karama, I'm so glad that Kara

Murza is now free

because when he came out, uh, through the prisoner swap in August,

Karamo

said I honestly thought I will die in detention. He received 25 years imprisonment

for a speech against the war

is one of the reasons.

But for his, um, dissident standing a Pulitzer Prize winning, um,

winning journalists as well.

So, yes, they risk anything from death like Navalny, um

or to really, uh, their health being completely taken away from them.

and

that's why we need as the international community,

to double the efforts to free these people.

And I think the government should not

shy away from talking to the Russian authorities

and really demanding the release of the political prisoners

equally,

the release of the Ukrainian deported civilians and military and Children.

I mean, all of these people who are kept in the, uh, in the Russian prisons system,

uh, under torturous conditions should be released.

There is no doubt about it.

Thank you.

Thank you. And Laurent?

Yeah. Thanks for taking my question.

Also, Swiss news agency. Um, first,

uh, some of your colleagues who are special uh uh,

mandate holders have characterised similar situation,

Uh, as crimes against humanity,

Uh, and and even some who didn't have to deal with war situations, but really, uh,

persecution of of, uh, internal opposition and internal human rights defenders.

So why did you decide?

Is the second report where you don't mention, uh, any anything like, uh, like that.

And now you have strong words. Structural state sponsored violations.

Why did you decide not to go for that? Uh, for that path? That's the first question.

And the second question is, uh, we we saw three days ago again,

wives of Russian soldiers demonstrating in front of the Ministry of Defence.

Is there an increase in terms of, uh, protests and arrests from soldiers' wives?

Thank you.

There an increase in.

Yes. Your first question if we don't hear you very well, guys on online.

But whatever we can hear,

your first question was why I haven't qualified.

I don't know which situation in Ukraine or in Russia as crimes against humanity.

Is that your question?

Lauren, can you please

clarify Maybe

which country are you talking about? Russia or Ukraine? In

Russia? Because we could see, for instance, the fact

mission on Venezuela,

which has to deal with an internal situation,

saying that the authorities perpetrated systematic violations

which could amount to crimes against humanity.

And here in

the last report, the the way you you you

qualify the things state sponsored structural violations,

uh, look pretty much like what was mentioned by by the fact finding

mission on Venezuela.

The question is, why don't you go to the path to qualify that in terms of, uh

uh, whether it could be, uh, crimes against humanity or not?

Well, first of all, maybe you, uh, you contain the answer in your question?

I'm not a fact finding mission. I'm one person with a very limited, uh, team.

And my role is not to investigate crimes against humanity.

I. I was leading the team of the K commissioner's, uh, examination on Belarus.

And this is where we did find

crimes against humanity after investigating the evidence.

Um, now, the role of a special rapporteur is not investigating.

I mean,

I'm not allowed by the Russian authorities to

enter the Russian Federation even by myself,

let alone with a team of investigators.

So,

it's against humanity in order to be because I've done it.

I can tell you it's a mathematics you need to absolutely,

with mathematical precision collect evidence first hand,

assess them, and then arrive at the end of a very long process to the conclusion.

Um, it's not, uh, anecdotal,

Um, I think as a former journalist, I know that, um,

we are journalists.

Or as in my previous role, um, we sometimes use this very lightly.

But behind war crimes crimes against humanity

uh, the call international criminal law, for example,

but also behind international humanitarian law.

You have absolute precision in investigation

and providing evidence of your claims.

So

that wasn't my role to investigate crimes against humanity in Russia.

I'm glad.

Um, you know, there is other mandates, like the Commission of inquiry on Ukraine,

which whose role

similarly, to the commission of inquiry in Venezuela,

the commissions of inquiry Are these bodies

charged by the Human Rights Council with the role of investigative body?

Um, but in the case of Russia, there is IC C.

There is the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court,

and I think he is investigating already on several counts.

As you know, there is an arrest warrants issued

against the president of Russia and against the Children's commissioner,

at least on the count of the Ukrainian Children.

And he has been involved, as far as I know in investigation.

Um, so

that's my answer.

But you can always ask the Human Rights Council

to actually entrust me as a single person orchestra

to actually go and investigate further

or to give me a team of investigators.

And I'll be happy to investigate all the international,

uh, criminal law violations

or humanitarian law as well.

But not for now, as a special rapporteur,

not my role, really.

There was a second part. Whether there has been an increase in

Yes, I mean monitoring what's happening with

because, you know, during the Chechnya war, there was a very solid mothers,

movement, soldiers, mothers, movement.

And

this movement, in some ways, I would think, was able to

to kind of stop the war. The war in Chechnya,

Uh, because mothers were very strongly

going into Chechnya and negotiating getting

soldiers out. But also,

it was a particularly strong movement in Russia.

Now, with this war of aggression against Ukraine.

First of all,

the soldiers mothers committees were dismantled because they

were accused of being foreign agents of being,

you know, like part of the civil society movement,

the true soldiers, mothers, committees.

Then there are these, uh, kind of pro government, uh,

wives and mothers and family members of, uh, mobilised officers and

mobilised in the special military operation.

We've seen the meeting, the president of Russia. We see them,

you know, kind of they

they carry the pro government message of how the war is necessary.

And the special military operation is an honour

for their for their, uh, mobilised, um, male relatives.

So, of course, uh, now, with, um uh, the active hostilities moving inside cork

region.

I

noticed. And by the way, my report was already finished.

Uh, because it takes a long time through

the UN bureaucracy to issue a report. So my report, um,

was already prepared when the

Kursk events were unfolding.

But, uh, what I monitor what I saw was all these mothers of, um,

young Russian, Uh, conscripts, Um,

these are the 18 year olds, because in Russia, you have, um uh,

you have, um, official, uh, and mandatory military service of two years for, um,

18 year old

men.

So suddenly there was a huge

activity by the mothers of these 18 year old conscripts

who for some reason were put to guard the border between Russia and Ukraine in

Kursk region.

So the society in Russia became really,

uh,

shocked by their president officially promising that

no 18 year old conscripts will be sent

in to fight against Ukraine or to have anything to do with the war

because they're just a part of training of their regular,

obligatory military service.

And then they discovered that this was a lie and their sons, without any training,

were actually sent

on the border. And when the Ukrainian army incursion happened,

the ones that were guarding the Russian border with was, by and large,

these 18 year olds.

So yes, we're seeing now a different signs of the mothers of the wives

getting the movement, trying to get,

more active.

But you have to understand that I I would never forget. Uh,

some wives who had, uh, very, uh, negative message for their government.

They wanted their husbands back, and this was a few months ago.

They were followed by the police by the Secret

Service through their one of their open demonstrations,

and I noticed how smart they were. They actually went in front of them.

Um, a secret for the Russians Monument of the Unknown Soldier.

It's, you know, with a flame there.

And they put flowers there.

So the police couldn't really come and arrest them,

because it would have been it was all televised, you know,

on television it would have been really

a crackdown on

women who were only having one message.

We want our husbands back, uh, from Ukraine from the war.

But there has been a crackdown on this movement,

and I think they are monitoring them.

I

I'm worried about these women because, um,

the mothers, the wives.

Um, because

if they continue criticising the war effort,

they will be next as political prisoners or detainees.

Thank you.

If there are no more questions,

we will close this press conference because we've gone over time also.

Thank you very much to Ms Katzover

for being here and answering the questions. And thank you all for joining.

Thank you very much. And come tomorrow at the ID.