The United Nations Office at Geneva
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HRC Press conference - Burundi 17 September 2020
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1:03:00
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B-ROLL: Launch report 2020 UN Commission of Inquiry on Burundi
TRT: 7:44
SOURCE: OHCHR /UN Commission of Inquiry on Burundi
RESTRICTIONS: NONE
LANGUAGE: ENGLISH / NATS
ASPECT RATIO: 16:9
DATELINE: 15 September 2020 GENEVA, SWITZERLAND
SHOTLIST
1. Wide shot, Street Scene Bujumbura, Burundi
2. Medium shot, people waiting with goods at the Burundi Revenue Authority (Office Burundais des Recettes) in Gatumba, border city to DRC
3. Close up, Bureau de l’OBR (Office Burundais des Recettes)
4. Medium shot, man taking bicycle away, street scene in Gatumba
5. Medium shot, man with bicycle and car with DRC plate passing a security checkpoint entering Burundi, another bicycle passing by
6. Close-up, goods with people waiting
7. Wide shot, people waiting with goods at Burundi Revenue Authority (Office Burundais des Recettes) in Gatumba, border city to DRC, truck passing by, military and police officer walking by
8. Close up, loosening of handcuffs in Mpimba prison in Bujumbura, 2015
9. Close up, hands behind bars in Mpimba prison in Bujumbura, 2015
Footage of election day 20 May 2020:
1. Wide shot, people queuing up to cast their vote (May 2020)
2. Medium shot, voters waiting in line with election card in their hands
3. Wide shot, women waiting to vote
4. Diverse shots, Opposition leader Agathon Rwasa, leader of National Liberation Forces, on voting day (20 May 2020) accompanied by police
5. Diverse shots, Opposition leader Agathon Rwasa casting his vote
6.Wide shot, woman voting in polling station
7. Close up, diverse shots, Opposition leader Agathon Rwasa casting his vote
8. Close up, woman casting vote
9. Close up, electoral list
10. Woman leaving polling booth and casting vote
11. Wide shot, woman voting
12. Electoral Commission ENI swearing in
13. Wide shot, polling station
14. Medium shot, polling station
15. Medium shot, woman waiting
16. Medium shot, woman in polling booth
17. Medium shot, President Évariste Nda¬yishimiye with wife outside polling station
18. Medium shot, President Évariste Nda¬yishimiye with wife in polling station
19. Diverse shots, President Évariste Nda¬yishimiye casting vote
Subject:
The members of the Commission of Inquiry will present their conclusions and written report on human rights violations committed in Burundi since May 2019 in the context of the electoral process in 2020 and the main risk factors after the 2020 elections.
Speakers:
- Doudou Diène, President of the UN Commission of Inquiry on Burundi
- Françoise Hampson, member of the UN Commission of Inquiry on Burundi
- Lucy Asuagbor, member of the UN Commission of Inquiry on Burundi
Teleprompter
Francois, I think with this, with this little technical arrangements, we can start our press conference.
I think Francois Hampson might join us soon the the third member of the Commission.
But as it's now well after 10:00 AM here in Geneva, I think we could start this virtual press conference with the Commission of Inquiry on Burundi.
I should note that this press conference is being webcast live for the benefit of outside audiences.
So joining us from Paris and Cameroon and and hopefully soon from the United Kingdom are the three members of the Commission, Doudianne, Lucy Azwagbault and Francoise Hampson, who will hopefully join us soon.
As I mentioned, the Commission members are here with us to launch their final report, which provides an overview of the human rights situation in Burundi, which summarises the final, their final conclusion, the final conclusions of their investigations since May May 2019.
I have a bit of an echo here.
Therefore, this report is also accompanied by a press release which was shared with you along with report the embargo on this material has been lifted.
I should point out that there is a supplementary report containing details on the Commission's finding, which has now been published on the Commission's web page.
So just to remind you briefly that the Commission of Inquiry was established by the Human Rights Council in September 2016 and has since been renewed annually for the last three years.
The Commission is scheduled to present this report to the Human Rights Council this coming Wednesday, 23 September.
Mont Noz Jordan La Parola, Member de la Commission poll for their remarks.
OK.
So if we can have the members deliver their remarks, please.
Thank you very much.
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Lucy, go ahead, please.
Thank you.
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We will now turn to our journalists joining us here for their questions.
Francois Angle, Catherine.
Fiancan de France, Francat Catherine.
Thank you, Rolando.
Thank you for giving me the floor.
Bonjour, Madame.
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Now see, do do we have a question now from Lisa Schleiner, Voice of America?
Lisa, if we can unmute her, please.
Thank you.
Go ahead, Lisa.
Good morning.
Nice to see you again Orlando and Commissioners, good morning to you.
I would appreciate a response in English please.
Possible.
I hope so.
OK, anyway, I have a few questions, but I'll, I'll, I'll keep it to a minimum and if there's time I'll ask more.
OK.
I'll start with, I'd like to 1st ask you what are the main risk factors you miss Monsieur DN we're talking about that, if you would be specific about that.
And I understand that are you concerned in regard to the new administration that the widespread corruption that you talk about will continue under the, I mean, what, what are essentially are your greatest fears about what might happen under the new administration?
And then if I might have a follow up.
Thank you.
I I.
Maybe Lisa, sorry to do if Lisa, could you ask your follow up now this way, because in on on zoom it's easier to do it that way.
Sorry to do, just if you wouldn't mind I.
Just would like to let.
OK.
Please go ahead.
Please Asif Asif Bor reply to the question and I will follow up Lucy, if you can answer that question.
OK then Lisa, you can ask your follow up immediately afterwards.
Go ahead, Lucy, please.
What are the risk risk factors, The first question, Yeah, thank.
Thank you very much.
In our last report, we had analysed the risk factors and this time around it was a question of factors.
And we noticed from our research during this.
That the security situation is still very volatile and persistent economic instability does exist.
There's also widespread impunity, which has always existed.
Consequently, human right violations go on punish the structures of the state are particularly weak, especially the judiciary, which is unable to perform its function as the last hope of the citizens.
The existence of political, economic and identity reasons to resort to violence, including the consolidation of power and preserve of the individual economic interest.
It's also one of those factors that still exist and there is a capacitance, in particular the omnipresence of the inborn Raikouri that's a weak the wing of the roots of the party who commits violations with all impunity and nothing has been done so far.
Of course, there's lack of factors that could have reduced the impact of this risk factors.
And the most important of all is that civil democratic space has been shrunk considerably and there is existence of triggering factors such as holding elections.
Those were the risk factors and not much has changed since our last report.
So they still need to to follow up more so because of the impunity that exists and the lack of democratic space to be able to mitigate the effects of the violations.
Thank you.
So if I may add Rolando or.
Please, please go ahead to do.
I would like to add the following points.
The risk factor as you know is the result of a very profound work done by several section of the human United United Nations system.
And, and I think it is really revolutionary in in the fact that on the basis of the fact is that we have taken this 8 risk factor which if followed carefully, will really let the international community monitor the situation very carefully.
And also the authorities of Burundi know that the risk factors are the point on which they have to give the priority and make meaningful change.
So on this basis, what do we see?
What is the picture since the election?
The first point is that the new authorities have appointed personalities, individuals at key position at the highest level of the state individual and the personalities who have been identified by the Commission, by international NGOs, by the European Union as having responsibilities in the violation of the human right.
So this is the first point.
It means that those who have been committing the violation are still in position of power.
The second factor we see is that the majority of the new authorities are from the military section of the of the of the country.
So which means that the the military has the prominent position and this is not certainly the best criteria for a democratic country.
The Third Point is the issue of impunity.
It is at the core of the violation of human right continue violation of human right and there is no move meaningful move of touching the issue of community impunity.
It means arresting and judging those who have been committing the human rights situation violations.
Thank you, Doo Doo.
Welcome to Francoise.
We're happy to have you with us.
Lisa, I think you had a follow up question.
Please go ahead.
Am I still unmuted?
You are unmuted.
Go ahead and the.
World can hear you.
Go ahead.
Oh great.
I'd just love to talk.
Thank you for those responses.
By the way, to follow up by, I'd like to know whether you are, let's see what do I have here?
Yeah, whether you're concerned that the situation in Burundi might get worse without having aun watchdog, that is for the past 3-4 years, your Commission has acted as a a watchdog in terms of the human rights situation in Burundi.
Once your Commission is dissolved, are you concerned that a kind of international pressure that should be put upon Burundi to change its ways will be gone?
Do you believe that your mandate should be renewed, perhaps not in the same way that it is now, but you have somebody take over a kind of vigilant role on Burundi.
And then I would also like to know whether the the government of Burundi has seen your latest, your final report and whether it has responded to it.
Thank you to respond to that.
First of all, to the best of my knowledge, the government has received the report, but I don't know that they have yet had a chance to respond.
They haven't had it for long.
I think it's essential that there should be some form of continuation of supervision.
It's very difficult to point to deterrence working because if it works, the thing that you fear would happen if it weren't there doesn't happen.
I'm very struck by the lack of wide scale political violence during the elections and I think one of the elements.
That brought that about was the fact that the world was looking.
The world was looking in part because we'd said it was incredible, incredibly important that they should carry on monitoring what was happening because of the elections.
Now, that suggests that even if they're not making progress towards a better respect for human rights and a reduction in violations, that nevertheless we're having some sort of restraining effect.
And given the uncertainty about what the plans are of the new president, that if you look at his actions as opposed to his words, it's not encouraging.
I think it's incredibly important that they should continue to be some form of monitoring mechanism to see what he's actually going to do, because it's too soon since his election and installation to really know in which direction of travel he's going.
And for that reason I think it's hugely important that there should continue to be some form of mechanism.
And since the the UN Security Council isn't doing what one might expect, over the past 12 months, it hasn't had the sessions on Burundi one would have expected it to have.
I think that means that the job falls to the Human Rights Council to ensure that there is something in place to ensure that there's monitoring.
So I would like to add can I Rolando add?
Of course, anytime.
Please go ahead.
Roses welcome.
And that was the first point really I would like to to remind is that the Commission of Inquiry has been monitoring the situation since now almost I think four years.
And I do think that the equality, depth and the credibility of the reports submitted by the Commission of Inquiry has been a key factor in mobilising international community and in bringing maybe some changes.
At least this is the first point.
The second point is that the Commission of Inquiry is the mechanism, one of the most holistic and powerful mechanism, and our Commission is only left international monitoring mechanism, there is no other one.
Burundi authorities have succeeded in literally eliminating, wiping out or silencing any structure, organ, mechanism, even from the African Union to monitor the situation.
So this is a fundamental point.
Now, the Third Point in conclusion is that the complexity of the situation, the fact is that after years of serious violations of human right, grave and profound, documented not only by the Commission but by international NGOs and different governments, you have a situation of transition.
Which means that to monitor the transition, to see if there are meaningful and lasting and deeper change in the situation of human right.
You need certainly a mechanism which have the possibility, the competence and the experience to continue to monitor this very delicate and complex situation of, of, of, of of human rights which plead for what I think you have to read because ultimately the Commission has not nominated itself.
We have been nominated by the Human Rights Council on the basis of what the civil society etcetera have have proposed and demanded.
Now it is important for you to read carefully what the civil society organisations, national, regional and international have stated in a declaration, recently issued a statement, their arguments and these are the people who are very much concerned and directly link to the population of of Burundi.
So I think that these are the main fact and the international community is at a turning point.
Now the way they are going to decide and what kind of mechanism will be a key factor in bringing change or in bringing just a cosmetic move from here and there, but not very profound change in the situation human right.
And ultimately is the is the aim of the Commissioner inquiry is not to punish or to denounce, but to make profound change in the situation of human right.
I'd like to add.
Let's go ahead.
Please, while the changes some form of ray of hope, but it's not really automatic in the sense that from the actions of the present government you see there's virtually continuity of what happened in the former regime and again there is need to monitor the transition as has been underlined.
And above all over the past four years we have been issuing several recommendations which need to be implemented.
Otherwise our work will just be a fertile exercise.
If those recommendations are not implemented, consequently the need for follow up mechanism.
Thank you.
Thank thanks to the three of you.
All important points we have.
I think a follow up from Catherine Fiancan.
Catherine.
Yes, thank you.
I will ask my question in English so it will be more convenient for the people that so the the the Commission has not to repeat the answer in in several languages.
I would like to come back on on several points.
First of all, the one that has been mentioned by Mrs Hampson, Missus Hampson, you just mentioned that the UN Security Council did not have the special sessions on Burundi as it was supposed to be.
So could you please elaborate a little bit on that one?
And I would like also to come back on what Dudu DN said about the need of, of a mechanism to, to, to monitor the, the very complex and delicate situation.
What is he thinking of?
And my last question is, what are you expecting now from the international community?
Thank you, Francois.
Right.
I'll start.
I think it's been a matter of concern that in the past 12 months the UN Security Council has not had the political will on the part of its members to have the periodic meetings at 3 monthly intervals that it's supposed to have on Burundi.
Whether that is affected by the so far non replacement of Mr Kafando as a special representative, I I wouldn't know.
I think it is a signal of a lessening of interest may maybe for a range of different reasons on the part of the members of the Security Council.
Whatever the reason.
And the Security Council isn't our province, they don't give us a mandate.
I think it's the question then for the Human Rights Council is what do you do if the Security Council isn't doing what it's supposed to do?
And to my mind that increases the responsibility of the Human Rights Council itself to maintain the scrutiny that it has envisaged in its resolutions precisely because the UN Security Council isn't doing it.
So I see this as a reinforcement of the responsibility of the Human Rights Council.
Given the picture presented by the operationalisation of the risk factors.
This is absolutely not the time to stop paying attention to Burundi.
So I would have thought that it would be useful possibly to replace Mr Kafando, but in the meantime, the Human Rights Council has to ensure that monitoring of Burundi continues.
Lucy, Maybe can you add before I add myself some point, Lucy Ronaldo, can I have nothing to add to that?
OK.
I would like to add just two or three-point to what Mrs Sampson has just said.
I really would like to to, to, to, to recall that this may be the most sensitive turning point for the Burundi people and the Burundi in terms of human rights.
Very simply because there has been a continuous violation of human rights.
We have talk about the concept we use is persistent of violation of human rights.
There is a new transition period, a possibility of change.
So which means that the monitoring of the situation is is is a **** priority.
But the monitoring of the situation in a in a very profound what, what, what what we called the profounded historic necessitate 2 points.
One experience, and I mean people who have been doing the this inquiry and, and who have been, who have the experience of, of, of doing the inquiry in not in all places where information can be received, checked, verified on the situation of human right.
Secondly, people, people who have had connections and contacts with the actors of the Burundi situation and who can immediately in this very delicate and complex situation, know what is going on.
What we, we have done is that identifying the risk factors and each rate factor is a very complex to monitor, to follow up very carefully, which means that any monitoring mechanism has to have experience contacts and the, the capacity of, of following up in a very careful way the risk factor we have identified.
So these are the main point.
Now I, I really come back to my previous recommendation.
I think it is highly important certainly for the government of the members of the Human Rights Council government, political governments, but to to decide, but it's highly important that the civil society which is committed and engaged on protecting human rights worldwide, their position be carefully listened to and taken care of.
Thank you both for those responses.
Nina Larsen of Arjan's France Press has a question.
If we could unmute Nina, please.
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you for taking my question.
I'll ask in in English as well.
I just wanted to follow up a little bit on a few of the other questions.
I was wondering, have you identified are there any new risk factors that you've seen with the new government?
And also, are there any specific violations you can point to since since the election, if there's there any movement in a new direction?
I know you say it sort of continuous from the former government, but I'm wondering if there if you see any indication that things are moving in a different direction, if there are, if there's a worse thing in any way.
And if you fear, if you fear that things could actually get worse, especially, I guess without the monitoring you're calling for.
Thank you.
Maybe Missus Hampton right on the the first issue as far as the risk factors are concerned, for me what's striking is that there is a persistence in the risk factors and the indicators in that you might have expected there to be a marked reduction given that the elections have been held.
One area where there's change is obviously we'd identified as a possible trigger for change the holding of elections, and we're very glad indeed that there was not widespread political violence during the period of the elections.
But just because the elections have happened, you might have thought there'd be a reduction on what has been really striking for us and what is documented.
But we haven't.
We weren't able to put it in the short report because of the time at which it had to be submitted.
In recent weeks, there have continued to be killings, there have continued to be arbitrary detention, and they've continued to be disappearances.
So it's slightly surprisingly perhaps it's continuing as it was, even though the elections are finished.
And that is a matter of very grave concern because as Mr Jian said, this is a a chance, it's an opportunity because there's been a change of political regime.
This makes it easier to change direction without in any sense losing face.
And we're not seeing that change.
There have been one or two moves, like the inviting of the World Health Organisation back into Bujumbura, which is welcome.
There has been talk about welcoming back refugees.
There has been talk about an end to impunity.
But we haven't seen turning away from the practises that marked the period before the new president was installed.
It wouldn't be too difficult, I wouldn't have thought to put an end, for example, to the activities of the in Bonnarooqi to say that there were no longer authorised on their own or with anybody else to act as a reinforcement to the national authorities.
That hasn't happened.
So what we've seen is a continuation of what happened before rather than the change that you might have expected.
So I will add this really I would like to, to, to, to, to remind you that human right, the the three pillars of, of human rights are key pillars are individuals who are committing violations of human rights, institutions who are protecting or not human rights and the democratic space.
And if we take these three pillars in terms of the individuals, as we have put in our report very clearly and we indicated since the beginning of this press conference that one of our concern is that people who have been identified as responsible of violations of human right and who have been under a Margo from the European Union and other countries have been promoted to key state position.
This is the first point.
It means that those who have been committing the human rights violation are still there and more powerful.
So it is an important factor.
We are not saying that they will continue, but we just say that it is a matter of concern.
The second point is institutions, and among the institution, the key institution is justice.
We have not seen any move to, to, to take action, to punish or brought to justice those who have been committing the violations of human rights.
This is a second support and the third pillar now the democratic space.
Democratic space mean Freedom of Information, freedom of media, the possibility for political parties to organise themselves, extract themselves democratically, etcetera.
There has been no change on that democratic.
It is still locked in a way.
So what we are just saying, all of us in our report and we are trying to do it in a very objective way because the Commission, as the international community would like to give the chance to the Burundi new government to bring about meaningful change, keeping in mind the very terrible situation of the Burundi people since so many years.
So we do think that the concept, the appeal we are launching is vigilance and monitoring.
Now it is for the international community and the Commission, the Human Rights Council, to take its responsibility.
So that we, we have given to the Human Rights Council all the necessary information to, to, to proceed and decide in, in a way which is really meaningful.
If I may add, I think in order to demonstrate the the good faith, they are mitigating factors which would have been taken there without much difficulty.
For example, resuming cooperation with the UN, opening the office of the **** Commission and also releasing all the human rights defenders who have been arrested over the period, especially during the elections.
This has not been done.
There is no guarantee of freedom of press.
All this would have been done without much difficulties to show the political will to change.
But I think we have highlighted all the mitigating factors that may be taken if only they can implement that.
And for us to be sure that they are implemented, there must be a follow up mechanism.
Thank you.
Thank.
Thanks to all three of you.
We have a question from Pierre Klaver, Voice of America in Kigali, if who's available.
Pierre.
Hello.
OK, Bonjour.
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Well, you see as far as the balance sheet is concerned.
What is significant is the fact that our investigation over the past four years has established the fact that there is really, really not much change in order not to use the word no change at all since the the the transition, human rights defenders continue to be arrested and imprisoned.
So lots of arbitrary arrests, lots of assassination, reports of violence, both sexual and otherwise, still being committed, and above all, the impunity has continued.
So, as we stated in our report in July, not much has been changed and above all, the fact that those who are the presumed authors of the violations are now today members of the government.
What can we really expect?
The Ingunarakuri has become more powerful than ever, ever before, committing the same atrocities and worse.
Even recently we had the use of the fact that some some Ingunarukuri were killed by armed men and this triggered tightening of the security to the extent of making life virtually impossible.
The issue of refugees is also very critical.
They are still being forced to return to Burundi, not voluntarily.
So these are issues which remain.
Not much has really progressed since the the change, whereas it would have been a very important opportunity to to change.
Thank you.
Mr Claver, just put Azuti as a my colleague.
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Thank you Dedu and all of you for that message.
I think we have a if it's OK, we have a two more questions if we can keep you online for a few more minutes if that's OK.
Thank you.
Before we turn back to you, Lisa, we have a question from Egide Nikisa of Iwachu.
If we can unmute Egide, please Bonjour.
Bonjour, people play Alesi.
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Hello.
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Thank you.
Thank you very much to do.
I think we have one final question.
Could I?
Could I?
Yes, Francois, sorry for that.
Francois, absolutely go.
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Thank you.
Thank you all of all of you for those responses.
Lisa, you've had your hand up for a while, but this will have to be our last question, I'm afraid.
And for those who perhaps have other questions and perhaps you can get in touch with the Commission staff directly.
We'll have the last question from Lisa from VOA.
Go ahead.
Yeah, yeah.
Thanks.
Very quickly.
It's been partially answered, but I'll ask it and I'd like it in English.
Thank you very much.
The human rights violations that the Commission that that has have been committed in Burundi and have continued throughout the electoral.
Would you say that many or some of them have risen to the level of human rights sorry, amount to crimes against humanity?
Would they amount to crimes against humanity?
In our earlier reports, we've indicated the context in which a human rights violation has to occur in order for it to be a crime against humanity, and that requires that there be some sort of plan by the authorities to have a campaign against the civilian population.
The acts that have happened recently during the election campaign are within that context.
So we've already established the context and some of the human rights violations that have occurred during the election.
And that have occurred since the election.
Would fit within that context.
And so they're crimes that build up towards the pattern of a crime against humanity.
In order to establish a crime against humanity, you don't do it crime by crime.
You first got to show that the context is 1, in which you can call the individual acts of ******, torture and so on crimes against humanity, and that we've and there's a continuation of the context.
In addition, some of the individual acts that are still occurring would constitute crimes against humanity because we've established that context.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Francois.
And maybe this is where we could end this press conference and I'd like to thank you.
Immense thanks to our three commissioners for their important work for this report.
I remind you that this report, the long and short versions, everything is available online, will be presented to the Human Rights Council on 23 September.
That's this coming Wednesday.
So I encourage you to take a look at all the material on the Commission website.
And I thank you once again for joining us here in this press conference and have a good day.
Thank.
You, Rolando.
Mercy.
The mercy of what?
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye.
Thank you.